He's Back! Talking finances with Nick Pagan.

[00:00:20] Speaker A: Experts on to talk all things money, marriage and relationships. I learned something new every episode and have a blast hanging with people. I get to call my friends, but there is nothing quite like chatting it up with my husband about how I apply my advice, strategies and tips for marriage in real life. We share a little bit about our dynamic when it comes to how we handle finances, including addressing the topic of our relationships with money, which takes me back to episode four of this season. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you are listening, so you never miss an update and check out more details in the show notes. Enjoy. Oh, hey again. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Hi. Thanks for checking back in with me. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a while. [00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't remember how long. [00:01:13] Speaker A: I think we recorded our first episode in like August of 2021 before I was pregnant. [00:01:19] Speaker B: Oh, that is a long time. [00:01:21] Speaker A: It is a long time. [00:01:23] Speaker B: It's gone by fast. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Life has definitely changed. So this season, I've been talking to a lot of people about all sorts of topics concerning money, finances. There's been some other things sprinkled in, but it's an important topic, I think, to me in general when I talk to clients, when I talk about premarital planning, but it's definitely been an important topic to us in our marriage. So I thought we'd talk a little bit about our experience dealing with money as a couple and also just share a little bit about our relationship with money and how we've built a partnership that is aligned on those issues. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's been quite a financial journey from where we started to where we are now. Big changes over the last decade. [00:02:13] Speaker A: No, for sure. So the first question I have for you, and then I'll obviously share my experience, but I want to hear a little bit about your relationship with money and where you remember kind of understanding or learning about the value of money, whether that was experience you had when you were really young and kind of how that evolved by watching the adults in your life kind of navigate different financial issues. So I think we've talked about that a little bit, but I don't know if we've talked about it in a formal way. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, in first or second grade, where they have the coins out and they make sure that just because a nickel is bigger, it's not more valuable than a dime. That's about the money extent of my money education from childhood. [00:03:03] Speaker A: That's it. [00:03:04] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it was not a thing growing up in my house. Yeah. Little to no experience with money or finances or anything like that. [00:03:19] Speaker A: When did that change. Do you remember a point in which you either started to have to navigate that issue, or is there something at least you remember, even if you were a teenager, young adult, where you understood kind of the difference in people having certain amount of money or how people spend money? [00:03:39] Speaker B: I mean, when you first move out on your own, I think you have to be much more aware of your finances. Finances, finances, I like that word. [00:03:50] Speaker A: Actually. [00:03:53] Speaker B: I was still really bad at it, but I never missed rent or bills or anything like that. I had a checkbook that was blank, that I never filled out. A lot of overdraft fees, probably thousands of dollars in overdraft fees. Really bad at managing it. But again, I've never borrowed money to make up for bills or anything like that. So where there was no future forethought, I was still just trying to maintain a current lifestyle. That was kind of the first time when you first kind of move out on your own. But, yeah. [00:04:36] Speaker A: I can remember a couple of different things. I can remember not really understanding, not so much the value of money, but I don't ever remember it being something that I either heard my parents talk about that much, either in a good or a bad way. But I remember being at the grocery store and watching my mom have coupons, and I was like, oh, there's coupons. There's these things that make things cheaper if you're smart about it. [00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, mine too. [00:05:06] Speaker A: And then I slowly got exposed to people who had never even bothered with coupons. That was, like, too much work for them. They could just swipe a card. So there was a little bit of that understanding that some people had more access than others. But I also didn't attribute that my family didn't have access. I thought of it as maybe they're being responsible. When I was little, that was kind of what I remember early on about my thought process. And it wasn't really, I think, until high school that I was really exposed to the difference between family kind of income status and access to money, because I went to a private school where there was a lot of wealthy families, and that is where I was first exposed. Like, oh, these friends of mine kind of have whatever they want. They can buy whatever they want. They live in this big house. It really took me to high school to actually understand that that was something to know. So it wasn't until later that I really started to understand. [00:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, same here. I think it's probably one of my parents biggest failings as far as raising us, because I know it's probably true. Actually, I definitely know it's true for my brothers as well, is money and finances was not something discussed, talked about, educated about, none of that at all. [00:06:33] Speaker A: Until you had to figure it out on your own. [00:06:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Not once. Not one conversation, no discussion about it. My parents, I think they were kind of the same way. I know, listening to some earlier episodes, talking about transparency and stuff like that in a marriage. I think they didn't teach us because I think they had issues with it, too. My mother was in charge of the finances. It's okay to have somebody in charge of finances, but there has to be transparency there, right? [00:07:14] Speaker A: And discussion and discussion. [00:07:15] Speaker B: And they were not doing that. My mother would hide credit card bills from my dad because she was spending way more than she should have. She would have us hide credit card bills for her if she thought that he would find them. It was probably the closest I ever saw of them coming to getting divorced. Because once my dad. Eventually. You can't hide it forever. [00:07:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's going to catch up with you. [00:07:45] Speaker B: It's going to catch up with you eventually. And eventually it did. And I remember my dad leaving the house and staying away for a couple of days. It was a big deal. My mom was in charge of finances, but he didn't ask questions. He had no idea about any of the bills. But she also put them at risk of losing their house, their cars. She really strained them financially. And he had no idea, but he also wasn't asking questions either. So it's a big deal to have that transparency. And I think, like I said, they didn't teach us about it because they didn't really know what they were doing either. [00:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And I actually think that's probably a lesson that you learned, that you didn't highlight, right? That you learned by being exposed to that. [00:08:32] Speaker B: If I had to go back, I'd say that was the first time where finances sort of was an issue. In my head was this conflict between my parents was all about that money. When she used to ask us to hide the credit card reveals, it never occurred to me why or why she wanted to do that, really. [00:08:50] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Until it became an issue and they started, had a huge fight about it and stuff. And then it was like, oh, she's spending way more money than she should be and she's trying to hide it. [00:09:02] Speaker A: Right. I think a little bit of not full opposite, but I think my parents did a pretty good job. I don't remember sitting down and having all these conversations about money, but I knew that my dad was making certain sacrifices to make sure I could afford to go to the private school that I went to in a normal situation, that was not something that was necessarily within their reach. My dad had to work two jobs to put me through high school. So I clearly understood that there was a sacrifice here. He had to sacrifice time at home. He had to sacrifice missing some of my games sometimes and some events because he was working to make sure I could afford it. Additionally, I kind of talked about being exposed to some friends that were a little bit wealthier, and it's easy at that age to want to keep up and be a part of that. And so I got a job in high school so that I could pay for all of those things. My parents made it very clear, like, you don't need that stuff. We're not going to pay for it. If you want it, you go work for it. I also got a car in high school, and my parents definitely spoiled me and took care of a lot of that, but I did contribute from time to time. I think there was a period of time where I had to pay my phone bill or something while I was working, so they didn't want me to just spend it all on just clothes and crap. So I do remember really building that. And by the time I went to college again, I was very lucky. I had a scholarship in college, and my parents made sure that I had access to other things while I was in college. I ended up working, I think, part time, my junior and senior year to have extra money for going out and buying a couple of extra things here and there. But I wasn't super independent fully. I still had a little bit of a safety net with my parents for an extended period of time that not a lot of people get to have. I know you moved out, like, right at 18. I wouldn't really consider myself having moved out until I was about 22, really. And even then, I think we met, like, a year later, and so it was like the next step of that phase. But I do remember my parents setting boundaries and not just letting me kind of run them dry. So I really appreciate that now, but I don't know that I appreciated it in the moment. [00:11:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, they set no boundaries for me. I got a guitar center credit card when I was 16, and I ran that thing so high that I couldn't afford the payments, and it went into collections and default and all that stuff. I would say the only way they spoiled me or helped me would be that if something did go drastically wrong, they would be there for me to fix it. Not financially, okay. But if I couldn't afford to live a place anymore, I could always move back home. Sure, if something went wrong, I mean, I paid for my own car, cash. They didn't give me any money, but if something went wrong with it, they might front me the money, but I had to pay them back. I've never really received any financial help from my parents, which is kind of a good and bad thing because there were no lessons taught. But I always kind of knew I had that little bit of a safety net if I really needed it. I never asked for it. I did have to move back home a few times throughout my life just because of circumstances. Circumstances, yeah, but, yeah, not a lot of lessons taught at younger ages. And I think that still carries through today because I'm still pretty bad about finances in general. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Yeah. But we've learned a lot together. I think we've built an understanding of what our goals are, and that kind of takes me to where I wanted to go next, which is before we met. When you thought about financial goals or your life in general, what that would look like. Tell me a little bit about what that picture was at the time. [00:13:07] Speaker B: Don't be homeless. [00:13:09] Speaker A: That was it. [00:13:10] Speaker B: That was basically it. [00:13:11] Speaker A: It's a pretty low bar. [00:13:12] Speaker B: It is a low bar, but you have to understand that we live in a very expensive area. I was working a construction job, a waiter bartending job. I had always kind of reserved myself to knowing that I was always going to have to have roommates. I was never going to be able to afford a house. Probably no new cars ever. And that was just it. I was like, this is going to be it. I'm going to just have to be okay with it. And I was like I said, I had reserved myself to having that life because, again, there was no ever any forethought about future financial goals. A. I couldn't really afford it. I guess if I really cut the fat and started saving, maybe eventually, but that was never me. Even after my first job, it wasn't saving money, it was experiences doing things. I think that's kind of more how I grew up with my friends was like, you can't take it with you, so you might as well just spend it and have a good time and have experiences. And that's what I did. If I had any extra money, it was going towards doing something. [00:14:29] Speaker A: Sure. [00:14:31] Speaker B: And so there was no. Because in my head, realistically, I'm never going to be able to house anyway, right? So what's the point? I might as well just do some really fun stuff while I can, while I'm young and able to. And I did. I have some great times. I can't remember most of them anymore, which is sort of a pitfall of that whole. Have experiences, you have them, but as you get older, they start to fade away. And now you're like, well, I'm pretty sure I had a good time, but I can't really remember. So what did I. Maybe it changed, affected how I grew up or my personality, but in the long run, yeah, I had some good times, but didn't have much to show for it. And like I said, I kind of reserved myself to having that life. [00:15:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And my experience is a little bit different. I think that there was a dynamic in which I understood very early on. Coming from two income household and watching my parents work really hard, I knew that I wanted to be able to always take care of myself. Meaning if I was going to be in a relationship and get married, I didn't want to have to depend on somebody else for the lifestyle that I was going to live. I didn't know how big that could be for myself. I didn't know exactly what that looked like, but I knew that I was going to do whatever I could to give myself financial stability so that I could do things on my, you know, as I had made the decision. After college, I lived in LA for a year with my brother and kind of just wanted to see what that was like. That wasn't going to take me anywhere, the job I was doing, but it gave me experience to know at least what it was like for the first time to live on my own, pay some bills, essentially be very broke all the time. Shout out to my sister in law, Janelle, who essentially made sure I could eat and drink for free because she worked at a bar and restaurant and took care of me. Otherwise, I was strapped. And that just gave me the push that I needed to say, okay, I've always known that I wanted to go to law school. This is what I want to do. I'm going to be able to take care of myself. And my financial goals were big. In my mind, they were always big. But what that life looked like, I never pictured exceeding. Maybe the lifestyle my parents have, which I had a great childhood. Everything I could have ever asked for. I don't remember looking back and not having everything. I just remember it being comfortable. But I think back to my dad having to work two jobs and if I wanted to give my family whatever that looked like at the time, all the opportunities I didn't want to have to miss out on it by working too much. That was where I was before we met, kind of. Okay. I had moved home for the year. I was living with my parents, like we've just talked about. I moved back in with my parents for a year before law school, bartending, having a good time. That was my year of experiences, knowing that I was about to take a turn for a lot of hard work, starting law school. So, for me, that was just my mindset was I didn't want to depend on anybody else financially. So I don't think that's changed in the sense that that's still my mindset. But the difference is, in a marriage, it's more like I want to know that if we hit hard times or something happens, I can figure it out, because I have the skills and the ability to take care of us. So I still have that mindset now, I think. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we've always been able to figure it out. I think going into the next part is our financial journey. Right. We were very poor while I was in law school. [00:18:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:27] Speaker B: When we first met and were together, so poor that I had to call my dad for $50 so we could get our dog on the plane to come home from Florida. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah. We had maxed out our credit cards. [00:18:43] Speaker B: $4 in the account. [00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I remember that. I don't remember it being so scarce at the time, because we were living in Florida. I know, but I think that's just my mental block. Like, we moved to Florida for my first year of law school. You were working. I was just in school full time, so it's not like I was bringing in money money. And we were just kind of making it work. Luckily, it was a more affordable place to live, and by the time it was time to come home for the summer, we literally had spent every dollar and had to come home. And luckily, because we were coming home to a place that we knew, we were able to kind of work right away and get back into jobs with people we knew. But it was tight. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I called D's. I was like, I need a job right now. I have zero money. [00:19:31] Speaker A: This is Double D's in Las Gatis, a restaurant that he worked at for a long time. [00:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And Darren was like, yeah, come in tomorrow. You can start. [00:19:39] Speaker A: Thank God. [00:19:41] Speaker B: I literally have zero. [00:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:44] Speaker B: And was able to go from there and then finally found a construction job again with my old company after probably a few months. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:56] Speaker B: And kind of got back on track, but it was scary. [00:20:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Once you got that job, and I found out that I got into Santa Clara and we were going to be staying here. I got, like, a part time job at a yoga studio while I was kind of waiting to figure out law school circumstances. Once I started school, then I started working for that law firm, and at least we had some money coming in where we could build. And I was working a couple of days a week. You were working full time. It felt a little bit less scary once we got to that point. [00:20:29] Speaker B: It's definitely one of those situations where whatever life throws at you, you make it work. [00:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:35] Speaker B: It's one of the few times, few periods where I was more responsible for the finances. And you were just going to school. [00:20:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:43] Speaker B: And I knew I had to do the right thing and be on top of it. Probably the only time in my life. Because afterwards, you kind of started taking over the finances as far as handling money and things like that. [00:21:01] Speaker A: Right. And we weren't even married then. Right. That was just a choice you were making and we were making together, but we had to push and pull what we were doing because you had to take care of a lot of things for me so that we could have groceries. I didn't have that. I wasn't contributing in that way. [00:21:21] Speaker B: Well, it was mostly just so you could focus on school. That was the important part. [00:21:25] Speaker A: Right. We didn't want it to take forever. [00:21:27] Speaker B: No, you do your thing. I get it's a hectic program, and so I just work as much as possible, as much overtime as I can, and just handle it when times get tougher. Hopefully you have that in general, have that mental thing that goes off and says, hey, you need to step up and handle your business. [00:21:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think we always did. And anytime I had time off from school, I'd always work more hours at my job, try to fill it in. I had that job all through law school, which was really important because I think it had that stability for once I was done with school, passed or took the bar exam, I had a full time job set up right away that allowed us to get some stability before we kind of move on to the next phase of our lives and the next phase of our financial conversation. I also look back at that time, and maybe you felt it differently, but I don't remember feeling like we were that broke when we were living in Campbell, I was going to law school. I remember still having fun doing things with friends. I don't think we didn't travel, which is what definitely took us into the next chapter. But I don't remember that time, I think we did a good job of managing what we had. [00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah. It wasn't a sense of feeling broke, definitely, because we had gotten to this routine of living a stripped down lifestyle. Right. And so you just kind of get used to it. Then when you have some more money coming in, not so much to where you make these drastic changes, but now you feel comfortable and you're not necessarily living paycheck to paycheck. I mean, we were still like, yeah, we're living in Campbell, but we still have a roommate. [00:23:15] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [00:23:16] Speaker B: So it's like one of those things that around here you're always going to just financially, it just makes sense. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:24] Speaker B: And that's probably why we had to live very meekly for a while. [00:23:30] Speaker A: Still seemed like enough. [00:23:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And it still seemed like enough. But when some more money starts coming in, you just start. Stop stressing about every dollar and every paycheck, not living that paycheck to paycheck mentality. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And without kind of going through, we've had lots of different chapters, but essentially, after I was able to pass the bar exam and get into stable employment, I think we've had kind of a slow build to where we are now. And so that kind of takes me is since, let's say, since getting married, but also just like, since kind of settling into both of us being working individuals, how do you think your financial goals or your view of what our life could look like has changed? [00:24:25] Speaker B: It's really hard to say because I have more than I ever thought I would already. So I've already surpassed any previous thought of life or finances or anything like that. So I don't really even know how to imagine something beyond that. And I don't really, to be quite honest, I don't have any of these financial goals in general, just because, like I said before, I wasn't raised that way. I had sort of reserved my life to being a certain way, and now that it's succeeded that I don't really know where to go from there. [00:25:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think we talked about this earlier in the year. We had, like, a date night planned, and we said, okay, what are our financial goals for this year? What are we going to talk about? And I think I led that conversation because in my mind, I always have really big goals. And sometimes those goals can be a little scary. But I think for me, that's what I need because I feel like I want to drive us in a direction that both of us have never kind of seen before because I truly believe I'm capable of that. Whether or not it happens, I understand that my life is so full of joy, happiness, health, that things could stay the same and I wouldn't be disappointed. So if that makes sense, I would only feel like a failure if I wasn't trying to reach certain goals for us as a family. That would make me feel like a failure. But not reaching those goals while trying doesn't make me feel like a failure. But I have to have those things that I'm constantly looking for. And I think it's important to have a balance between the two of us acknowledging those things, because I think it keeps us centered. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, if we both had these crazy goals and we were both trying to go for them at the same time, it could very easily either pull you in different directions or put too much strain on. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:25] Speaker B: I'm assuming that's what happened to a lot of up and coming actors, is they're so ambitious and one person wants to do this and move out here and it just. You know what I mean? [00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker B: Just as a vague example. Yeah. You're a very goal oriented person, so supporting those goals is really all I'm here to do because I don't really have any. [00:26:53] Speaker A: But I think what's important about the dynamic, though, is I never feel like you're going to tell me to stop pursuing certain goals or tell me that I don't need to be doing that, or let's not waste our time with that. You're just going to say you want to do it. If that's what you need to do, I'm here for you. I'll support you, I'll pick up the slack, whatever you need. Because you know that I need to do those types of things, not just financially, but that's what I'm talking about right now. I have big financial goals for our family. There's things that I'm doing, businesses I'm building on top of my job because I truly believe I'm capable and I want to see it through. And I know that you are going to be there whether I succeed or not. And our life is just going to be fine. And that's important to me. [00:27:45] Speaker B: I mean, I fully trust you in that regard, but I also know that if something catastrophic were to happen, we'll make it through. Right? [00:27:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:57] Speaker B: Sometimes you fall flat in your face. All you can do is get back up and you need support and family to do that. So even if something like that did happen, it might suck for a little while, but you make it work. [00:28:10] Speaker A: Right. And we've been smart with our house and the investments we make. We're constantly making sure that there's money in the right places so that we can live a certain lifestyle, but also prepare for retirement and prepare for any other goals we have. And this kind of taps on what you were talking about earlier with your parents is I might manage a lot of the finances. I make sure all the bills are paid. I know where the money is. I take care of all the finances. All the finances. I take care of moving money around all of our investments. That's because I do really enjoy that. And I'm a little bit of a control freak. So if I gave some of that away, I feel like the balls would drop. Not because I don't want to do it anyway, but I still regularly make an effort to tell you what's going on. Like, hey, this is something we need to watch out for. I'm letting you know, like, hey, I'm moving more money into this investment account. I'm going to liquidate some of these stocks. I'm going to do this. Or, hey, I'm making this investment. Do you need anything? I try to do that and make sure you know where all the accounts are. What are all the accounts? I'm not hiding anything from you or trying to keep you out of it. [00:29:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we both have access to all the accounts and you can go on at any time and look and see what's going on. Yeah, definitely the conversations about any sort of big money transactions or when you're talking about your new business, like, hey, it's going to take this much money. And like I said, I trust you, so if you say we can handle it, then I believe you. [00:29:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's all about kind of having the balance, too. I think when we've had conversations where one time big expenses have come up. We had some big expenses, I think, what, early last year, the year before with our dog, and it was much more expensive than I think either of us could have imagined. And we had the money, but it had to come from somewhere, and it impacted, I think, our travel for that year. We had to kind of pull back and be tight. When we've had those situations, we're able to adjust. We pull back for a couple of months, we replenish our kind of emergency funds, and we both do it. It's not like that burden is on one person. I know that. Especially when I opened my firm and we were making more money than we had. We didn't own a home at that time. We didn't have a child, because now, obviously, that changes the way that you approach finances, too, when you have a child to take care of. We spent a lot one year. We had one year where we had some fun. We traveled and bought some things and did a lot of fun stuff. [00:31:01] Speaker B: A big addition to my whiskey collection was during that time. Yeah, I was buying bottles weekly. [00:31:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I was buying a lot of clothes. We were eating out like crazy. That was a really fun year. I don't regret anything about that year. I remember it very well and it was pretty quick of like, that's not really a lifestyle. I felt like I needed to live long term, especially once we made the decision to buy a house and then COVID hit and we were kind of really being in it. It changed our mentality. And I'm actually really thankful for that time and that change because now I feel like we are selective about how we spend money, and I think both of us agree that there are certain things that we do not care about and there are certain things that we do right. We care about travel. We care about Belly having certain experiences. Bellamy is our daughter. We call her belly Belly having certain experiences and having a comfortable home, not stressing about groceries or eating out, but everything else is kind of just extra. Like, yes, we want to be able to do fun things here and there, but I just feel like it takes the stress off of constantly trying to keep up. And I'm very comfortable with our life financially now and how we've navigated the way that we spend. [00:32:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, a good money saving tip for all of those wives, I guess, and or husbands. I'm not going to be gender astounding or partners, or partners that dislike video games. It's a great way to save money in the long run because if your significant other can sit down for 100 plus hours, obviously over the period of months playing one video game that he spent $50 on, that's going to save a lot of money of them going out and drinking or golfing or whatever. So that's what I do. I spend $50 on one video game, and that'll keep me entertained for months on end. [00:32:58] Speaker A: That's true, because when you choose to spend time on golfing or other things. [00:33:02] Speaker B: Like that, it's much more expensive and much more frequent. Like, you're spending money every single time as opposed to, like I said, $150 video game you get hundreds of hours out of. So don't hate on those people who like to play video games. It's a great money saving technique. [00:33:18] Speaker A: So what is the one thing that you still really not necessarily like spending money on? It's not really that, but what are one of the things not necessarily like an actual thing, like an actual material thing or something that you have to pay to do that you will never sacrifice, you will always find a way to pay for? [00:33:40] Speaker B: I don't have anything that I would always find money for. Like, if we were in a financial stress, I would stop golfing because it's just too expensive. In general, I would say my hobbies are what I spend money on. Again, it's going back to that. Doing things. Growing up, it wasn't saving money, it was doing things and experiences. But like I said, I don't think there's any one thing that is like a non negotiable where like, oh, even if we were broke, I still need to get this again. A video game is a pretty good investment when you're really poor, especially if you buy a used one for $30 and you want to keep yourself entertained for a long period of time, it's a great way to go. But I don't really have anything that's like that. If push came to shove, I could give up pretty much everything. I mean, when we had the baby and you told me I could either golf or buy whiskey, I stuck with golf because it's more active, it's more entertaining. It's something to do. I think I've maybe bought two bottles in the last two years since she's been born, because I used to buy a bottle a week at least. [00:34:52] Speaker A: And I think it's important to explain to people that you have, like, 600 bottles. It's not just like, whiskey that you're drinking every week. [00:34:59] Speaker B: No, I'm not like, buying a bottle, drinking it, and then buying another bottle to replace that. Yes. It's a collection. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Yeah. It's an extensive collection that takes up a room in our home. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So I don't think I have any of those hard lines where like, oh, I need to do that. I have some things that I could probably get by on doing cheap. I love coloring for some reason. That's a cheap hobby. Just got to buy the pencils, but I don't have anything. [00:35:26] Speaker A: I think if I really had to look at what makes a difference in how I feel, how I act, and my overall just health and perception, for me, it would be working out. Meaning that's the one thing I always think is worth the money. But in the same regard, if we really couldn't afford for me to pay to go to F 45, I would do the peloton and work out from home and it would be okay. I can't push myself enough, but that's probably the thing that is the biggest daily factor. Obviously, even when I think about travel is really important to us. We plan our year around when we're going to travel and we really want to make sure belly has as many experiences as she possibly can in her life as well. But at the same time, if we had to change the way we traveled by doing more road trips or camping versus what we might plan for ourselves right now, I could also live with that. And I'm so thankful that we get a lot of choices and we're in that position where we do. I think we both look at our lives and feel very thankful that we have more than maybe we would have ever imagined. And it's been a lot of fun to experience that with you. [00:36:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, definitely it all came at from a lot of hard work. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And I think both of us take, you were talking about it earlier and it's not like we're too proud or something. Important decision. And I think we talked about this earlier in our relationship was I really didn't want to borrow money from family. I don't like the burden that that puts on, and we've never had to do that. And to me, that alone is a success for you and I, and I'm not judging people who have had to do that or do it regularly, whatever your dynamics are in your family, great. But for me, that was an important goal. To feel like I didn't have to place a burden on anybody in my family to ask for money in any situation, that was a big deal. [00:37:38] Speaker B: I think just knowing that the option was there sure was enough. Yeah, we never used it, but we always had that option. And just having that knowledge, it was like, I'm never going to put myself in a position to be able to, have to, really have to. But that option was always there. And I think mentally that was just enough to be like, you know what? You can figure it out. You can do it. [00:38:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And so many people don't have that. We are so lucky to have those opportunities there should we need them. And the end of the day, I think it's made us more successful individually to know that our decision was really for you and I. That wasn't an option. It's there. But we had made a commitment to kind of navigate our lives without having to borrow money from family members or anyone like that. And we've been able to build a life that is very financially stable, and I'm just so proud of that. But, yeah, I think that what's important about this is this is obviously not the first time we've talked about a lot of these things, but I think it's nice to kind of check in. And what I recommend to all my clients is you can have a conversation early on in your relationship and you should have many of them, but it's just as important to continue to have the conversations about finances and your thoughts around finances to make sure we're on the same page. Because just because I manage the finances doesn't mean I just get to make all the plans and be the only one kind of benefiting from our financial position. Right? [00:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah. You're very good about sharing and transparency, even if I don't ask. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if something were to happen to me, you need to be able to figure out where everything is. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Oh, that would be a shit show. [00:39:28] Speaker A: I have a Google Doc. [00:39:29] Speaker B: I know it would still be a shit show. [00:39:32] Speaker A: Is there anything else that you think is helpful to share about kind of our dynamic when it comes to finances or anything that you think works really well that you recommend for people to try? [00:39:44] Speaker B: It's kind of the same thing over and over again. It's communication and transparency, really. It goes a really long way. Again, I don't ask for these things, you just do it, which I appreciate. Yeah, that's what it is. It's that transparency in finances and just communicating about it. [00:40:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely think that's the most important. Especially, like I said, for somebody like me, who I know I have big goals, which means if I want to make some big moves, I need to access our money in a way that maybe we wouldn't on a day to day basis. And you trust me. But I also make sure, you know, you have the option to say no, to ask questions, to be uncomfortable if I ever do that. I don't think that's ever happened, but I believe that I have given you enough information into what we're doing that you would feel comfortable to be like, I don't think we should be doing that right now. Usually right now it's like, if you think we can do that, if you think that's fine, I trust you. And that's really helpful for somebody like me that likes to make moves quick, that likes to make decisions so that we can maximize our future. So I think it's a good dynamic. I think it's great that we're a little bit different. But I also think that it's important we acknowledge those differences, and it makes us as a team. When it comes to finances, I think that much stronger. [00:41:09] Speaker B: I agree. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Well, thanks for sitting down with me today. [00:41:13] Speaker B: Anytime. [00:41:14] Speaker A: Literally anytime. No, I was going to say, I feel like I need to send the questions in advance, make sure you're available and prepped and ready. [00:41:23] Speaker B: Okay. So anytime after you do all that. [00:41:25] Speaker A: Okay. All right. Talk soon. [00:41:27] Speaker B: See you later.