Episode Transcript
[00:00:17] Speaker A: Hey, friends.
Talking about relationships and the commitments we make to ourselves and others requires us to sometimes address address the hard topics. Today we are talking about domestic violence with experienced family law attorney Nicole Ford. First, I want to make sure everyone knows that the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 you can call 807 97233 or text start to 88788 now. Second, domestic violence is a heavy topic and Nicole and I are only able to share a small snapshot of what we have seen in our cases as family law attorneys. This episode is not meant to generalize as no case is the same. We hope you learned something new today. Enjoy.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Hey, girl.
[00:01:06] Speaker C: Hey.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Thank you so much for giving me your afternoon to chat today. I'm so excited you're here. My pleasure.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Is really excited. Been looking forward to this.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like, I mean, we've known each other a long time, but I feel like the last five years or so have really taken our professional relationship to a friendship. And I'm so thankful for you in so many different ways.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Not only just showing up for me today, but you show up for me throughout the week when I have questions about all sorts of things, like you're such an important mentor in my legal journey and I'm just so thankful you're here. So I just wanted to sing your praises for a second or two before we got into it.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Well, thank you. And that's this profession. This is kind of how we survive.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you have to have teammates. You have to have colleagues that you can go to one. I think it makes this job a little bit easier to get through some days, but I think so many people think you have to be in competition with your colleagues and we're in family loss. There's not really competition. There's so many people that need services that sometimes it's like you wish there was more of us to go around. But when you have colleagues that are in the same industry and you can refer between each other and make sure that the clients are getting to the right person, it's so important. And I feel know I've been really lucky to have contacts within the family law world, especially here in Santa Clara county, but even outside of the county that are going to show up for me and answer my questions. But I think no one compares to the energy that you give me when I need you.
And so, yeah, I'm just so excited that we're going to sit down and chat a little bit about a topic we both care a lot about but is a hard one we're going to talk about domestic violence today, and it can be hard, but it's also really important for everybody to know what's going on, and not only for people who are subject to domestic violence, but people who are around people who might be subject to domestic violence.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: And I think a good part of this will also talk about the benefits and the hope that can come out of a lot of that, because that's what has kept me going for 20 years, is seeing the strength of people and seeing people change for the better.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. So why don't you share with the listeners a little bit about your background, your legal background, and how you got to where you are now?
[00:03:29] Speaker C: So I grew up in a home where there was domestic violence. That was actually what prompted me to want to be a lawyer when I was a kid. And so my whole mindset, starting at about age twelve, was I got to do well in high school so I can go to college, so I can go to law school. And that's singularly what happened. Went to undergrad here at Santa Clara University.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: It's how I go broncos.
[00:03:54] Speaker C: Got to know this beautiful county. And then because I was in my twenty s, I couldn't wait to get out of this county because it felt boring. Went up to Davis, did law school in Davis, realized how wonderful it was down here. Spent a couple of years migrating from Yolo county down to Marin county and then back here in 2009. But the whole time I was doing it, coming back down was doing domestic violence and family law for nonprofits. So for people who were indigent, who couldn't afford counsel, I primarily worked with immigrant communities. I'm a bilingual spanish speaker, which was also one of my goals when I was a kid, was to learn how to do that, to serve that community, and that's what I did. And then after about ten years in nonprofit, I opened my own firm, which was scary, but it's been a lot of fun.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
When you open up your own firm, I feel like there's this heavy weight of responsibility for yourself, but also to the people that you serve, that there's no one else to fall back on.
And this kind of goes into what we were just talking about.
I have a business partner, and so somebody who I can constantly bounce ideas off of. But it goes back to having colleagues, I think, to support that and saying, like, I know you have some really great relationships and friendships that you've built from colleagues over the years that make it seem like you're not on your own.
[00:05:17] Speaker C: Well, there's that? Plus, you can talk to your friends all you want about your cases, but you can call one attorney and be like, hey, do you know that person? And both of you will roll your eyes at the same time. And there's something about that, too, that you're just like, it's not me. I'm not crazy.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: Yeah. It's all of us. We all see it.
I definitely tell people, if you need an expert in domestic violence and intimate partner violence, I refer them to you. And especially because now, when we first opened our firm, I did a lot more domestic violence. I have chosen professionally to no longer do domestic violence. We have a couple of cases here and there for the right clients, but it was so emotionally draining for me that I just decided that was not a role I could play in my firm. Sometimes we've taken some pro bono cases here and there when I really feel like it's a good fit and we can help, but usually I'm going to refer people to you. And so I know you shared that you grew up in a home with some domestic violence, but is there anything else that really drove you to invest in kind of making sure that you were not only helping those involved, but also what has gotten you to the level of expertise that, I mean, I at least think that you are? I think you think you're out there at that point as well. So just tell me a little bit about that.
[00:06:41] Speaker C: So I kind of fell into it. So I had actually spent all of my undergrad years and law school doing internships at district attorney's offices because I was not as aware of the legal aid world. But I had really wanted to do law that didn't cost people money.
But my last year of law school, I wanted to get more court time. So I started a year long clinic at a place, it was the domestic violence and family protection assistance clinic, doing dv and family law. And then I took a job out of law school with a local DV agency. And it just kind of kept falling into it to the point where I finally did get offered what I thought was my dream job at a district attorney's office a week before I was opening my own firm. And I kind of realized I'm really good at this, and this is my jam because it is hard. There are days where I'm like, why do I do this? But I cannot fathom doing anything else because I think I get those emails from clients from years later who say, like, I don't know if you remember me, but you changed my life. I got an email over the holidays, which just reminds me, I need to respond to it from a client who said, I don't know if you remember me, but you helped me during my thing, and I have some extra cash now. I'd like to give it to you to do some more of your pro bono work to help you do that work. And she's paying it forward. And when you see people who have regained strength or you see kids who are safe, or even an abuser who maybe needed mental health intervention and gets that help and then becomes a really healthy and safe dad, man, that is. Words can't put in to really describe how life changing that is. And that's where I find meaning, is knowing that I'm impacting people that way. I have my moments where I'm like, what am I doing? I'm not even doing anything good here.
But then it's almost like the universe knows and sends me those emails, sends me those contacts to be like, hey, by the way, doing great just to.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Keep you in, pull you back.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: It's like the mob.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really hard. I've had some of those cases I can remember early on. And when you get this timeline of abuse or you get people who are just like, oh, I don't want to take the kids away, or there's just so much struggle in those moments. And I always remind people, like, we're not mental health experts, right? We're lawyers. This is what the law says. This is what we've learned.
And it can be hard to make sure that they're getting a well rounded approach to this situation because the restraining order, while it can be very important not only for that person to feel safe, it is just a piece of paper.
And there are plenty of people who will risk going to jail to continue a cycle of abuse. And so there's limits within there of what we can do. But if we can help give a couple of people that peace of mind, that they stood up for themselves, they stood up for their children after sometimes not standing up for themselves for a very long time. And that's not a judgment in any way. It's just a reality of life.
It can really feel that way. And I remember some of those moments, and then I remember some of the moments of the prolonging of the abuse by continuing hearings and continuing hearings or having to relive it at trial and watch your clients kind of go through this retraumatization about it. And, yeah, it wasn't for me. So to know that you've done it that long. I'm just so thankful to have you in our community because there's a lot of family law attorneys, and I know a lot that do domestic violence, but there's something so important about somebody that really invests in understanding, not just how to get a restraining order for somebody, I can do that, but being able to handhold somebody and really walk them through it and make sure that they're okay, it's really hard.
[00:11:00] Speaker C: It is. And it took me a really long time to really build that kind of thicker exterior because a lot of Times I also found that my clients would. I don't want to say turn on me, but the first time they started to exercise their power when they'd been deprived of it for so long was usually against me.
And I took it as a personal affront at first until I realized it was because I'm safe. Right. I'm not going to hit them, I'm not going to yell at them, I'm not going to turn my back on them so they could do that. And they almost always apologize because they realize what they've done. But I warn people who are new to domestic violence, if they're an attorney, if you're working with survivors, be prepared for this to happen. And it's not about you. It's about know that you are so safe for them that they want to test it out on you. And that's kind of a gift in a very deranged sort of way.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: No, that actually makes sense. And it's something I've never thought about, I guess. And I've realized there's been those moments. But, yeah, I always just expect, especially, I've had some really difficult cases and also some borderline cases where I think there's some mutual domestic violence going on. And those ones can be just as hard because both parties need to get healthy, whether there's kids involved or not. But I don't think I've ever thought about it that way. So that's actually a really good point. So what types of domestic violence are you seeing the most right now?
[00:12:28] Speaker C: So I have seen kind of a drop in the physical abuse. It's still occurring. But what I'm seeing a lot more of, especially as people kind of get hip to what DV is, I'm seeing a lot more of the psychological, emotional, the gaslighting. Or people get into therapy and then weaponize therapeutic terms like, I think a really good example. Was it Jonah Hill when he asked his then girlfriend, I want you to stop posting in bikinis. On your instagram. But she was a professional surfer. Like, bikini was basically her uniform. And he knew that getting into the relationship. And he told her, you need to respect my boundaries. And that's a very therapeutic. I set boundaries, and you need to respect them. But he was putting his boundaries on her. He wasn't setting a boundary like, please don't use that language with me. It was, I want you to stop doing this thing because I'm bothered by it.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:30] Speaker C: And so I'm seeing a lot of that where.
And it gets a little more difficult. Those ones are hard because there's not going to be a whole lot of evidence with that. And then because we live in Silicon Valley, I see a lot of tech abuse. So cameras, stalking, hacking email accounts, phones, a ring camera, even something. If you have, like, smart thermostat, they'll mess with that. So I've seen a lot of that. And then I think I would say that I saw that during COVID we didn't see an increase in frequency of DV. What we found was an increase in the violence of it. Because you are now trapped in a home. Right. There's no breaks. Right. Kids go to school, that's a break. Husband or wife goes to work, that's a break. Nope. Everyone is now just trapped in this home, processing their lives, seeing what's going on, and being told the world's falling apart. And so that's a lot of what I saw there was that increase in violence, and then that seemed to decrease. And you just had people being really manipulative is what I've seen a lot of recently. And the hard part with that is that's not always something you can get a restraining order for.
That's really hard to prove. So what that is more about, from my perspective, is getting them resources, getting them connected with a DB group that can do support groups so that they know they're not alone. And then if they have the resources, getting them into therapy to start processing how to set boundaries and how to not let that person get to them, because you see that a lot, especially in litigation. Well, why is he saying this? And it just crumbles them all over again? And my response is, why do you let that person take that much power from you? You have this much energy. They deserve none of it. And that's hard. That's really hard to undo.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I've had some difficult cases in the last couple of years, and I've even stepped out of some of these cases. Think, you know what? It's not that I'm not capable, but I know the court can't do a lot, and the evidence is so difficult that I feel like there's another attorney who has the type of energy to push and dig. And I want you with the right person because I believe you have a case, and I'm not that person.
I said this before. I focus a lot of my work on out of court work. I do a lot of collaborative, a lot of mediation, prenups, postnups, and divorce coaching. I litigate, and I have significant experience in litigation.
But I'm very choosy because of the emotional toll that it can take on me and bring into my personal life and my family, which some people are great at. Some people are great at setting a line, like in their profession and saying, I can do this work and move on, and it's not my life. I struggled with that, and I knew that. But when it comes to the other issues, the finances, all of that stuff never gets to me. It's the kids, it's the domestic violence, it's the manipulation. And one of the other things that I saw used just a couple of times with very smart men is using mental health against, and this could happen against the woman, but this could happen women against men as well. And I have seen those types of tools. But in the last couple of years, it's been very, very smart men using it against women, using their mental health struggles as an ongoing reason to control, to say they're unfit mothers, to alienate and coach the kids and talk poorly about their mothers and their mental health in front of the kids. And it's just multiple cases, and sometimes it's escalated to domestic violence, and sometimes it's just an ongoing issue. And that is always a very difficult thing to get across in court, like the weaponizing of mental health issues and what somebody should and should not be required to prove about their mental health in family court. Which kind of takes me to something I've said before on this podcast, is the family court is such a toxic place, and it's such the wild west, and there's judges who really, really try and they do the best they possibly can, but these are people who have five to 20 minutes to spend on somebody's life. They're limited, and they have to go with what they can see and what they can do and focus on safety, but they can't usually get to those nuanced issues unless you have a full blown trial. But the mental health weaponizing is definitely something that is very rampant right now.
[00:18:07] Speaker C: I feel like, well, when I talked about gaslighting, that's absolutely included in that. Like, no one will believe you because you're bipolar. No one will believe you. And the thing that I've always said, from my experience, is if you can show that you acknowledge it and you're addressing it, most courts don't care, but we get new judges every two to three years. We get people who have never touched family law, and they get a two hour crash course in it and maybe 20 minutes of it as dv.
And so how do you educate someone who. And sometimes they don't want to be in family law. Sometimes they're not invested in learning as much as I would like them to, just personally. And so how do you deal with that, too? It's a crapshoot.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: And you have to sit there and educate them in 20 minutes. Yeah, or less. You're educating them on the law, but you're also educating them on mental health data, which we are, as lawyers are limited in presenting because it's technically hearsay and expert opinion that we are not experts in. And so you have to get real. Sometimes we do have the means and the resources to get experts on the stand and actually explain to the court. And I've had some of those trials, and it makes all the difference to get an expert. But a lot of these cases that we have, they don't have the financial resources to have these types of experts testifying on their behalf to say, look, this might not look like domestic violence to the world that we know, but this is the damage it does. It's intentional. It's knowingly, it's for the purpose of control and pain to the other person. And this is why.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: But that's actually why California legislature recently included coercive control in the original definition, because it recognized that calling it domestic violence, I think, misses the nuance.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:57] Speaker C: The coercive control. There are going to be acts that aren't criminal. There's going to be acts that aren't physical. And it is that controlling behavior, that power dynamic. And so I think California is trying to implement that even in just the actual code itself, by calling it coercive control. So does it rise to a restraining order? No. But is it the kind of behavior that's unacceptable, especially in a parenting dynamic?
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's sometimes, too, where it can definitely change if you just have two people with no children.
I'm not saying that that can't still happen. There's a lot, of course, of control in partnerships without children, but it can be blatant and in your face in situations with children. And the damage can go so deep that when we're trying to figure out how do we resolve this, how do we move forward? Where should the children be? The children are saying they want to be with mom, but mom's actually coaching them and saying all these things about dad to make them believe that that's the case. And dad's sitting there trying and begging and saying, mom, she's done this all her life, and the kids are aligned with mom, and the kids don't know. And some kids are really, really great at taking on the emotion and energy of a parent as if it was their own, such that people don't believe that they're being coached or lying. But you can have video recording evidence of it happening. You can all these things, and it's still just so hard to demonstrate. So I think it would be helpful to kind of do, obviously, high level general of what are the requirements for somebody to qualify for a civil domestic violence restraining order versus what people think are restraining orders when it comes to criminal? Because that's very different. So could you tell us a little bit about that?
[00:21:42] Speaker C: So one of the nice things, it's like, the weirdest thing, one of the nice things about a restraining order is in the civil context, we can include a lot more behavior and show patterns. So, like criminal court, as I tell people, it's a snapshot in time. It's, did this event happen on this day at this time? Boom, done. Family court. You could describe a history of it. And how I usually describe the history is, what's the straw that broke the camel's back? What was the final event that pushed you to say, I need this restraining order, and then talk about the kind of historical context of when we got together, we were both using, and then I quit using. And then he lorded it over me because I had a DUI once, but you can get anything from. He never put me on the bank accounts. I never had access to our finances, and so we always threatened. He would leave and I'd be homeless, and so he would get the kids.
He tracked my phone. I always had to have find me app on.
If I didn't check in with him, he would lock me out of the house, things like that. Or even, since I work with a lot of immigrant communities, I'm a citizen. You're not, I'll have you deported, or who do you think they're going to give kids to, you or me? And that is not criminal, but it certainly falls into something that would be prohibited because it's the contact, right. It's having that control. Well, if you stop the contact, it does take away some of that control, because suddenly you don't have someone in your ear all the time. Now, some of those guys will violate the orders. And what I tell clients is when I say guys, I mean general people, because I'm from California, and we use guys to describe even a know to block the number. You don't have to communicate anymore. And when they suddenly don't have that in their ear all the time, they find peace, because some of it is about curbing behavior, but it's also about finding peace so that they can heal. And then that behavior isn't as threatening down the road, too, but it can be anywhere. As wild as no access to the bank accounts, someone running up a credit card to actual physical violence, which, I mean, like just grabbing my arm, blocking my path from leaving, holding the kids so I wouldn't leave the house, telling me I can leave, but my kids can't go. Again, all of that. It's not necessarily criminal, but, boy, does it fall into the restraining order.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
And I'm glad you made that distinction, because a lot of people think it's like, oh, what if I have a criminal restraining order? Do I also need, or should I also have a civil restraining order? And I know what I say, but I want to hear what you say about the distinction between the actual value of having both.
[00:24:32] Speaker C: I always say yes, because the criminal restraining order, once it's done, it's done. There's no renewing it, there's no extending it. It often only protects one party. The family law orders or civil orders can protect children, can protect other parties, like if you have a new spouse or if a parent lives with you, it also can contain multitudes of orders. So recording, stay away, no contact. Those are all contained in both orders. But then you also have debt payments, you have custody orders, you have ordering that. You can sever the telephone lines. You can get access to checking accounts, get possession of a home, get a kickout order, get possession of a car.
All sorts of things like that can be contained in the civil order that you just can't get in a criminal order. And then the civil order also can be renewed. So if there's a violation of it at any time, even from the time it was a temporary order or after, it's an automatic renewal, so you can remain protected versus the CPO, that just.
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Goes away, and we're in California here. But consequences for violating a civil restraining order twofold.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: Honestly, depending on the jurisdiction you're in and where you are, you may get someone to respond. You can be arrested for violating either order, but you can also be held in contempt in family court. Like you can file a contempt against someone, which is quasi criminal as well, and that impacts your family case as it goes on. Right. Like no one wants a criminal contempt. Are you going to go to jail for either one? Probably not, but I don't know. I feel like you can do more with a restraining order that way because I feel like the enforcement of any kind of restraining order, civil or criminal, is going to be largely depending on why you're calling. Is it an emergency and what jurisdiction you're in.
[00:26:21] Speaker B: And the other thing when we talk about contempt is essentially you violated a court order. Court found you in violation of a court order, and you have no reasonable.
[00:26:31] Speaker C: Excuse for why you violated the court order.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: That's very general terms. But sometimes with certain people, yeah, you won't have jail time, but you can have financial consequences. You can have financial consequences through the contempt itself, but also sanctions as part of your family law case if there's ongoing violations. So there's a lot of really great tools to having both.
And yes, when the criminal protective order is in place, you have a little bit more of the heightened. If that's violated, the police kind of put that on more priority sometimes, I think, than civil.
[00:27:10] Speaker C: And because they're usually on probation while they're doing it, that gives a little bit more of a twist.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:27:15] Speaker C: But then once that probation is done again.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Right, then you're left with what? And the custody orders and visitation orders of domestic violence. Restraining orders stay in place even after expiration unless you have some modification of orders in the future. So having those additional terms in there, I think, can be really valuable. And it also just sets a record for your case should there be ongoing abuse. And one thing I wanted to get back to that you kind of mentioned that I don't think people highlight is kind of the abuser who is now understanding of the abuse that they participated in and the efforts that they can make to become a better person and especially a better parent.
People do bad things and they do them either purposely or they do them for a multitude of mental health reasons. But that's one of the first things I tell some of my clients, depending on the situation, is there can be redemption here, and you have to be prepared for that and putting orders in place that make sure that that redemption is real. Right. And not for show but can you maybe give me an example of a case or something or maybe two cases or something that you think would be helpful for people to understand about the cycle of abuse?
[00:28:39] Speaker C: Well, and it's interesting because my brain was just like filtering through a bunch of them that I had.
Especially now that we know so much more about brain development and the frontal lobe, the frontal cortex, which is responsible for impulse control, emotional regulation, if that's ever been damaged, we now know that maybe your impulsivity isn't your fault per se. You might struggle with it more because maybe your frontal lobe didn't develop because you had adhd. They're now finding, if you have adhd, that frontal lobe may take as far as into your thirty s to fully develop because of the different wiring that goes on, or if they played football or if they had traumatic brain injury or they were in the military. I mean, there's just a lot of exposure to trauma.
I find most people, when you kind of dig at them, if they have committed acts of domestic violence, you'll usually find they have some sort of trauma in their background. And so that wired them differently, too. And so there has to be some level of compassion. Honestly, I know that sounds weird in some way, but understanding that means you can get them the right help and be a good parent. And I always tell the parents, like you said, be prepared for it. Doesn't mean that you have to get back together. Doesn't mean. But just know that they're becoming a safer parent. And your child is entitled to that relationship centered on the child. It's not. He's entitled to relationship with your children. Your children are entitled to have a safe and healthy parent.
I remember one of my earliest cases, I had a dad who just. He didn't know that what he was doing was wrong. And then once he realized it, he took a bunch of classes. And I remember he came to my office with a bunch of school clothes for the kids. Goes, I didn't know what sizes, so I just bought all the sizes.
I hope you can give this to her. He goes, I'm so sorry for what I did. Like, he was so emotional. And I told her. And then I learned later, they had a very civil co parenting relationship. I have a client right now that dad finally got clean. That was a big problem. Big drug user. He's been clean and sober. She's been clean and sober for almost two years now. She said, like, we do picnics together with our kid. He's got his new partner, so we're not getting back together. But we're civil now. We can co parent now. And he understands how wrong everything was once he got clean, took some therapy, kind of started fixing himself. And so to hear those stories, I love it. Do I have to forgive that person? No, but that's not my family. And as long as my client is safe and that child has two safe and healthy parents, man, that is all you can ask for.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think that's important to highlight, too. And I don't think it comes off as insensitive to victims of domestic violence or intimate partner violence, because I think what is distinct are the situations where you have a person who is acknowledging, taking responsibility and doing better. There are plenty of people who are either incapable or unwilling to do that. And those are the people that are going to perpetuate the cycle of violence onto their next partner and continuing to the children. And that's obviously what some heavy litigation in family court is all about, the ongoing issues, and those are the saddest cases. But it's hard not to talk about it without highlighting that there are moments where families can come out the other side. And I think you highlighted a good point. It doesn't mean that a person who is subject to the abuse has to even fully forgive that person or ignore the fact that they had to sustain that type of trauma. But helping people educate themselves on the difference between the relationship that they had with their abuser and the relationship their children will have with that co parent, as long as that person has done the work to keep the children safe, they're all very distinct, and as long as they're getting the support that they need. But it can be really hard, and I've had a lot of hard conversations with clients when we have a restraining order, and the parent subject to the restraining order is slowly getting more and more time, and they're just like. But I haven't seen a change, and it's a very hard balance. I get it. I understand that. I also don't get it right. I get from my clients perspective, but I also understand that I have not had that experience, so I can never be in your shoes. But it's the education part of, like, you have to be prepared that this is a possibility. And if it goes well, it's a good thing.
[00:33:15] Speaker C: I think that's absolutely one of the hardest things is, but I got this restraining order, and it's like. But I know it's hard to hear. It's a good thing for your kids, and some parents have a hard time separating that out, really. Have a hard time and that's something you just be aware of and you need to work on. And again, just kind of be patient because know that they're still in their healing process. And usually they get to a place where I'm never going to talk to you again. But my kids don't report anything scary because I think that's the scariest thing for a lot of these survivors is I'm leaving this person that I know with my kids. Are they going to be okay?
And I do a lot of minors counsel work. I've got a couple of cases right now where we have someone who has gotten clean, done the therapy, realized what they did, and the other parent is still slowly kind of decompensating. And I might be, you kind of have to go, do I like that I have to make a decision between the decompensating parent and the parent who was found to abusive? No. But are they a safe parent? Yes.
And so what do you do? You just kind of wrestle with that because as an attorney, am I doing the right thing? Am I making the right litigation choice? Am I making the right strategy choice here? And realize that you're flawed and mistakes may happen, but I can honestly say so. August will be 20 years that I've done this. I have never had a client re injured, reabused, or pass away after they were involved with me. And I think that in this field is a remarkable thing, and I am grateful for it every day.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Yeah, the kid cases have definitely been the hardest. It's another thing that I don't take on anymore as much as the judges wish some of us would take more of these cases is it was easier for me to be honest when I didn't have a child.
[00:35:17] Speaker C: Right.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: And I didn't think that that was why at the time, until I had a child. And I was like, I have to get out. And I always joke that I am a parent, but I'm not parenting. My daughter's 21 months.
And so it's really just a lot of being yelled at by a little small person telling me no. So I don't know what it's like to parent. Like really parent.
And you get these parents who are asking you to help and expect you to be on their side, but you're actually there for the child. You don't represent either of the parents. You're not there to work for them. You're there to work out for the child. And especially in situations of abuse, those can be some of the heaviest and some of the hardest.
[00:36:00] Speaker C: Well, for me, that was part of the private practice switch. Having been that kid. Right. And not having an advocate impacted me a great deal. And so I get a lot of you don't have kids, you don't know, I said, but I was that kid. Yeah. And that impacts me a lot in how I operate. Sure. And it sounds weird, but I think part of the reason I can also do this work sustained is because I don't have children and I don't have a partner at this time where I'm worried about their safety because of what I do. I have cats now, but it's not the same. Yeah.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Well, Nicole, you're also running for a judge seat in Santa Clara county. I'd love to hear a little bit about your platform and some of the things that you're talking about for why you want to take this empty seat.
[00:36:50] Speaker C: Well, thank know this is all part of my grand scheme of things. In terms of giving back.
I think I come from a very different kind of perspective. I grew up, like I said, in a DV household and then single mom and pushed my way through a lot of things. And then having done family law for so long, but doing this DV side where it still creeps into criminal, I think our slogan has been progress is power. So putting people who are younger, who understand more nuances, who are not just going to roll in the old rigmarole of a system that needs fixing. I mean, it's an imperfect system. I don't think anyone could say otherwise. Acknowledging that is important and understanding that we could probably effectuate more justice and change from within has been really important to me.
I tell people I hold people accountable for their actions, but I can do so in a way that also shows empathy and compassion, because I think that is so lacking in general in our society. We just want to say, you were a bad person. I don't think there's inherently bad people. I think people have done bad things, but that's because things didn't go right in their life. So how do we hold them accountable and then effectuate real change so these things don't keep happening? And you've talked a lot about education, resources. We lack resources. So let's get creative. Let's really bring our communities together. I mean, that's how I do a lot of things, is I collaborate with multiple different nonprofits and community orgs. So catholic charities, Sacred Heart, those are charity organizations. So you work there, you get some referrals, you work in the community. There's nonprofits like Aki, and nextdoor they have their own referrals. So let's work together and see how we can help people. And I think that's part of it. And that building can continue even on the bench. And I think I'm going to bring a very different perspective.
Instead of someone who's maybe been in the system for years in a static way, I feel like I've bounced around from criminal to family to even some civil stuff. I do hague things. I did immigration for a long time. So I just have this very broad perspective. And I deal with people on their worst days. They're going to yell at you like your tiny little dictator. People are going to be mad and they're going to yell at you. And you have to be ready to not be offended and take it personally because these are hurt people who don't know how else to respond. And I think some people, when they get on the bench, have never had that experience with someone basically telling you how much they hate you and all that stuff. I mean, that happens. And I understand and I like to think most days, not all days, that I approach it from a place of compassion when I deal in responding. And I think I'm going to bring that very unique perspective to the bench.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: Well, I love that. And I'm so excited for you.
Having been a friend and a colleague, but also somebody who has to show up in family court, I think that you're so perfectly suited for a role like this. I think that you're fair, you're procedurally very detailed, and you also understand that everyone's humans and there can be room within the court system and the law for flexibility when the law allows.
And I'm just really proud of you. And so where can people find information about you, about what you're doing?
[00:40:32] Speaker C: So we're working on getting the website up and running, but you can always just email me at, it's Nicole. N-I-C-O-L-E. Ford. F-O-R-D for the number four judge 24 at Gmail. And that's where we get our emails. That's actually if people want to donate to the campaign. PayPal and Zelle are all at that email address as well. Perfect.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: And I will tag those in the episode notes. Great. Nicole, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time.
[00:41:05] Speaker C: Thank you for having me. This was fun.
[00:41:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it was like perfect little girls. Girls afternoon on a Friday.
[00:41:10] Speaker C: Perfect.
[00:41:10] Speaker B: All right, thanks, Nicole.
[00:41:43] Speaker C: Our channel.
