Episode Transcript
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Hey. Hey, friends. Thank you for checking out the forever but not always podcast. I am your host, Chelsea Thon. I have so many fun topics and guests planned for season one, but I thought I would start off by bringing my husband in for a little chat as a teaser of what is to come. Being a divorce attorney and mediator, I know how important it is to communicate. So I thought I'd hook us up to Mike's and have a mini, check it with my phone. Enjoy.
All comfortable now.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: All comfortable.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: I think we got to figure it out.
So hi. Thanks for sitting down with me tonight. I know you have better things to be doing.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Sleeping.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Sleeping or playing video games, probably.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: So what I wanted to share with everyone today is a little bit about us and our dynamic. I think that's something that I tell people I don't know that this comes up for you as much, but I think it's something that I tell people that I'm most proud of. So one thing I always find fascinating is when you ask a husband to describe their marriage or talk about their marriage, it's so different than if you ask a wife to talk about their marriage. And these are some of the things that I think we actually don't talk about that much, but I think we agree. So I'm going to be curious what kind of things you'll say, but I know in my mind what I think you might say already.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: All right. Now I'm curious.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: One thing I believe we are consistently equal with is our partnership dynamic. So what are some of the things that I'm responsible for in the household?
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Like on a daily basis or just in general?
[00:02:19] Speaker A: On a daily basis, like household and life management stuff. What am I responsible for?
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Well, I mean, you take care of all the finances and bills and all that stuff.
I don't know how to do any of that. I wouldn't know who to contact, where to go.
I don't even know how much our garbage bill is. Where does that even go to? I've never seen one before.
So definitely all of that the behind the scenes stuff that you don't really see every day.
As far as stuff around the house, it's like you usually make the bed and try to cook as often as you feel like, which is not very, but it's fine.
I'll give you a little bit of credit for that because you are trying to at least make an effort.
Let's see.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Doesn't sound like very much.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Do you do laundry?
[00:03:28] Speaker A: Yes, that's true.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: Put away dishes. I would say do dishes, but we have a dishwasher, so, I mean, doing dishes really just consists of putting them away, which I'm really bad at. So you do tend to have to do that.
Yeah. I would say the major thing is all the behind the scenes stuff that you don't really see on a daily basis.
A lot of things would come crashing down if you weren't around.
I'd be getting a lot of calls from bill collectors and people like that.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah. I would describe myself as, like, the COO. Right. Like I'm operations of what's going on.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: And CFO and CFO.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm both of those roles. But I think that you definitely pull more weight when it comes to housework, generally. I mean, we have a house cleaner, so neither of us are cleaning the house. But you're cooking, you're taking care of trash or taking care of the lawn and outdoors and fixing things and keeping the dogs on track. Keeping the cats on track. While we might both feed the animals and take a role. I think you oversee clean a lot of poop. Yeah. Up until recently, you cleaned a lot more poop. Only because we got the litter robot, which I will talk about more because that thing's amazing.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Maybe in the future we can get.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: A sponsor for not an advertisement, just something, an observation. Just something I'm loving right now is our litter robot.
But yeah, I definitely think that you take on a lot more of that stuff within the house.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Sure. The daily chores. I mean, you work later and by the time you get home, it's six, seven o'clock and dinner time. Yeah, dinner time. We go to bed pretty early.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you think that our partnership is equal? Do you ever feel like I'm not pulling weight or that there's something you wish I did more of in the home?
[00:05:44] Speaker B: I did for a little while earlier.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Earlier?
[00:05:50] Speaker B: When it's been a few years. I'd say, okay, definitely not since we've lived in our new house.
Just because I think I did realize how much you actually do that isn't physical housework behind the scenes.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: So I don't think about it anymore.
And if I don't feel like doing something, I'll just say, like, hey, can you do that? And 90% of the time will say yes. So I don't feel like you're ever avoiding it.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I was talking to somebody the other day where it's like if there's something I feel like I want help with or I felt like I've done it too many times in a row, or it's not about keeping score, but it's more about if I ask you to help me with something, you saying no. Sounds like just a disregard for anything. Not that you do that. I'm just saying that's the reaction.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: I don't think I've ever said no.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: You never have. But that's in my mind. If I ask you and you say no, I'm thinking that that's just a disregard for anything like what I'm doing. Oh, yeah. But forgetting is different, though.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: I'm very forgetful.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: But when you I always remember at.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: The weirdest times I'll be like, driving on the freeway like, shit, yeah, I need to do that when I get home, and then by the time I get home, it's too late.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Well, I think we both do that, but I think I always know that if I'm going to ask you, you're going to say yes. You might ask to do it a little later than I would prefer, but other than that, you're going to say yes, you're always going to help me.
You're never going to say, like, no, that's your job, or that's something, or you just do it. That's not what either.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Designated jobs?
[00:07:33] Speaker A: No, not at all. I think there's some things that you tend to do, and there's some things I tend to do, and then there's a lot of overlap.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: There's also a lot more I know how to do. House stuff is something needs fixing or hanging or something when you've gotten better, you know how to use a level in a screw gun now.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Well, and I think this goes to another point of what I think wives would say versus husbands, too, or just spouses or different spouses in general.
I think that if you have the skill, you should just do it. And I don't need to learn how to do it because that's what you bring to the table.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: But what if I'm not around one day or I'm on vacation on a golf trip and something happens? You need to fix something. YouTube?
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I can follow instructions. I'm capable, but isn't that kind of the yeah, like, do you want me to teach you how to gather everything for our taxes?
[00:08:36] Speaker B: No.
[00:08:36] Speaker A: Well, right. It's like a lot of work, and it's a skill I have, so that's the only thing that I think about.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Sometimes that's fair, I guess. When I was growing up, if somebody wanted to teach me something, I would listen, whether it was like, car stuff or house stuff. I learned a lot from my dad or friends who were mechanics, like, hey, how do you change brake pads? Can you show me how to do it? And I don't know. I always wanted to do that, so I guess I projected that onto you. And when I realized you really didn't really care to learn, I was like, fine, I'll just do it.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: Well, I don't care to learn about those things I learned about.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I'm saying about those types of things, specifically.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I learn about things every day, so I feel like I get enough. One thing that I guess I hear people comment on a lot is that we're so different.
Either people know us differently or they perceive us as different people. I don't think you and I really see that as much as maybe other people comment. But why do you think that despite our differences, our dynamic works so well?
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Because I think we want to be better for each other. Like, I want to be better for you and you want to be better for me, even if there are differences.
And when you're talking differences, most of the time they're just surface deep like things you like to do or don't like to do.
But I think the core value stuff is what's more important. And I feel like we have that.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I would generally agree. I would say that the things that matter about creating a life together, we are consistently on the same page.
I think we're definitely different people. Our personalities are different.
But there's so much in not only our backgrounds that are very similar, how we grew up, how we were raised.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Well, understanding those differences is really important because if you don't recognize that those differences are there or even if you dislike them, that's just a part of that person.
When you have a hyper type A personality like you have, you're going to have some ups and downs as far as your emotional roller coaster that you're on right. That's just kind of in your personality. And someone else could easily let it get to them and just let it bum them out or get frustrated really easy. But you recognize these types of differences and be like, well, that just happens sometimes. Just try to support through it and eventually it gets better.
Recognizing those types of differences is super important.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: You make me sound like a psycho.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: You're not a psycho. You can be a little psycho, but you're not a psycho.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: Well, I think that the balance is like I'm definitely I can be high stress. I can sometimes react a little quicker and in a way that can spark conflict because I'm only able to see in those moments sometimes my perspective and my perspective is the only one that's right in my mind at those moments. But I think that how you counter that is you are pretty even. You don't have a lot of highs and lows. You're pretty consistent on an emotional basis. You're pretty consistent on a supportive basis. So I don't ever feel like, one, when I have those moments, you make me feel bad about them. And two, that you're not going to think differently because I've worked myself through this kind of high stress moment. Or maybe what sometimes is an unreasonable reaction, I feel like can usually just be like a quick conversation that you and I can have because you stay even sure.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: But I need your ups and downs because I am. So one could say lethargic sometimes I'm procrastinator kind of just go with the flow kind of too mellow. But without somebody like you, I feel like I wouldn't have any drive. So it's more motivation to be efficient, timely, efficient, proactive driven, proactive, all those things. Yeah.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: And I think that in the same regard, you also help me slow down when I can add too much stuff to my plate. When I say that I just can't do something or I don't feel like I want to do something. It's never a question about, oh, we should make this happen, or you need to find time, because you know that if I can do something and I care about doing something, it's important to me, I'm going to do it. If I just can't do it, then it's not right for me. And you never make me feel bad about that. And you also make sure I do take the time for myself to relax.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm the opposite. And if I didn't have you, all the things that I really do enjoy doing, like charity stuff or all those extracurricular things, it doesn't cross my mind to actively do those things. But when you bring them up, I'm like, yeah, totally, that sounds like fun, let's do that.
But it's not something I would ever do on my own.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's good to know for me that if I bring you into that, you're going to say yes, because it's nice to have a teammate to do those types of things with as well.
What is the thing that causes us to have the most conflict? What is the thing that comes up where we find ourselves arguing more often?
Is there one particular thing that you can think of that comes to mind that tends to be a reoccurring theme in arguments?
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Not that comes to mind off the top of my head. I mean, you wrote the question, so you probably had longer to think about it, so you probably have an answer.
[00:15:15] Speaker A: Well, when I was thinking about this conversation, I was trying to think of not necessarily the topic of the argument, but what is the cause? And the majority of the time, regardless of the topic, it's poor communication and not because we don't communicate generally with each other, but we have very different communication styles.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: And I think that causes frustration. For example, I think you tend to communicate as an overview of things you're saying, like, oh, this is everything we need to do.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Bigger picture.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Sure. Big picture.
This is what we need to do and I'm going to do it, versus I'm like, okay, what's step one? What's step two? What's step three? Let's make sure we get all these things completed. That's how my brain works. And I think when you skip over all of that, I can't function to get myself to where you are as quickly. And that can cause me to be frustrated, but it can also cause me to not want to engage.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: Okay, it might be the construction background, which might sound weird, but you start at the finished product, the big picture, and you work your way backwards, right? So this is where I want to be. And then you kind of work your way backwards from there.
But when you're having a verbal discussion or whatever, like, well, this is where I want to be. This is the end game right here. Right. So then maybe that's all we talk about is that portion of it.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: Well, and I think, conversely, my brain is like, what am I trying to demonstrate? How do I get myself to the end result? And so it's kind of reverse. And then I think right in the middle of this conversation is when we tend to both get frustrated because you're trying to do one thing, and you're going way faster. And I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't know what step one is. I don't know what step two is. All I know is step four. So when I think back to any time that we've argue is probably a strong word, I think, for us, we don't really argue as much as we bicker about communication issues.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it's more bickering than arguing.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: But it comes down to me. I think the majority of the arguments have nothing to do with the topic itself. It has to do with how we're communicating with one another.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Sure. I mean, I'm kind of that way in general.
I have a lot of internal thoughts that I don't express verbally or out loud, but I know where I want to end up at the end. Sure. Right. So here's what I'm trying to do. There might be 100 different thoughts in my head, but I'm trying to keep them there so I don't lose it.
So I don't really express them verbally.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Well, and I want you to share that with me when we're going through any kind of conflict resolution. Right. Because I don't get it.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Well, sure. It's all going on in my head, though.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Well, let's strap a mic to it, because I need to know it doesn't.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Come as naturally for some people.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and I think that I could probably ask less sarcastic questions during the process, be like, okay, where do I need to begin? Versus, I don't understand what you're saying, because I feel like that's my normal reaction. I don't understand what you want me to do. I have no idea what you want me to do.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds about right.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: So coming out of the conversation of, okay, this is the type of conflict we have, I think, generally speaking, you and I would agree, neither of us likes conflict to last very long time. And when I say I don't like conflict to last a very long time, I mean, like, five to ten minutes, and it's over. It's not some lingering thing, although I still think there's moments when it happens when we're not communicating and we're going to bed kind of angry, but it's usually not that extreme. It's more just little things. But do you believe that we both compromise or make attempts to resolve conflict equally?
[00:19:49] Speaker B: I don't know.
To be quite honest, I probably would.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Say the same thing.
I don't feel like it's not something.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: That I keep track of I don't keep score right in my head, so I wouldn't really know how to answer that. I would like to think yes, but I have no idea.
That's not something that I've cataloged.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: I would agree in the sense that I don't believe in keeping score. I think that I often feel that we resolve conflict differently, but I think we both make efforts to kind of stop conflict from escalating equally in the sense that we both put in effort to stop conflict.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I would agree with that as you definitely don't make it escalate. Like, I see people in life and on TV and whatnot where they easily could end this argument or fight or whatever, and they just push harder and harder and harder and it almost seems spiteful or not about whatever it is they're fighting about.
And I don't think we've ever done that where I've never pushed you to get a reaction out of you. I've never tried to escalate anything.
I've never gone too far to where I regretted something.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: No, we don't really fight like that. No, not that I can ever remember.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Because again, we don't try to pick at each other or push each other to escalate just for the sake of arguing.
Yeah.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: No, I would agree.
So shifting away from conflict and more negative based conversations, what is something that you think we do well together?
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Why don't you answer first and I'll see what you have to say.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Well, I think we participate in each other's lives well, so I'll describe that a little bit more in the sense that I think I show up in your life just as much as you show up in mine. Because while we're married and our life is definitely one, for the most part, there's things that you do and there's things that I do. There's your friends, there's my friends, there's certain different groups, and I think we show up. So if I have charity organizations like events for my charity organizations or work events or things that I want to plan, I don't ever have to worry about you just saying, no, I'm not going to do that, or no, I'm not interested, even if it's not something that you particularly are excited about.
And I think that that comes across in many ways in the sense that I have become very close to a lot of your friends and their wives. Not just their wives because they're your friends, because they're a part of my life now. And then there's things that you like to do, and I think that I make an effort to show up for those things. So that is something that I think we do well together.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you trying to take up golf so we could spend more time together. It's really exciting. I'm really glad you decided to do that because it's something I just really enjoy doing and I always like having you there.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah, and it's fun. I mean, it wasn't something that I thought I would enjoy, but I like to be a part of your life. Like if I can find more reasons to spend time with you besides just being at home doing something together, that is the best part.
I don't think you need to do it all the time because there's definitely things that you really enjoy that I just haven't. Like, I'm just not into at all. And there's things that I enjoy that I know you're not into, and sometimes you still do them because you know that I care, and then other times you're not going to do them. And that's got to be okay.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: Like what?
[00:24:31] Speaker A: Like going to certain concerts that I know you really don't like to go to.
You still complain about it.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: But I mean, country music, it's pretty terrible.
[00:24:41] Speaker A: It's not supposed to be for good music. It's supposed to be for a good time, get it together.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Okay. I mean, I'd still do it.
I might complain.
Yeah.
I might make fun of the artist, but I'll still do it.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you still show up. I think that's really the only way I can describe it.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: So I don't like going to country concerts, but I would still go. Would you go to a Cattle Decapitation concert with me?
[00:25:13] Speaker A: I don't even know what that is. Do I know what that is? Have I heard them?
[00:25:19] Speaker B: It's like hardcore death metal.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: But do you really enjoy that?
[00:25:25] Speaker B: I do.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: You don't listen to it. Like when we're in the car.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: That's because you're in the car.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: When I'm in the car by myself, I have my windows down and the volume at, like, 80.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: But I feel like we do, like, a lot of the same music. We have a lot of overlap.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: I mean, I probably wouldn't take you to one of those shows.
They can be a little dangerous.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: It sounds like the floor would be sticky at their shows because of the sweat and blood.
I was just thinking, like, lots of spilled drinks. I wasn't thinking sweat and blood. But you're not helping me want to go to these types of things.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: It's fine. I wouldn't make you go anymore.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: There's other things I would make you.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Do something just because I knew you didn't enjoy it. Just to make you do it.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: I don't make you do that.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: You're right. You don't make me. And it's different. There's times where going to a country concert yeah. It's not going to be enjoyable for me, but it's also probably not physically dangerous.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: You know what I mean?
[00:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah. Have you ever had to apologize for me?
[00:26:38] Speaker B: No, not that I can think of.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think so either.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: No, definitely not.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: That's good.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: Definitely have no memory of having to go up to them and be like, sorry about my wife. She's who she is. Something.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Do you ever say anything nice about me to other people when I'm not around?
[00:26:59] Speaker B: I would hope so.
I mean, anybody listening that knows me, I would imagine that I do.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: I'll do a survey monkey after this for all your friends and ask them about all the things that you've said about me when I'm not around.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: I guess we'll find out.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: I'm comfortable with that.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: I think the results will be just fine.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: All right, well, thanks for chatting with me today.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: All right, well, thank you for having me on. That was interesting, to say the least.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for taking time out of busy day.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Anything for you.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Love you.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Love you, too.
