Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Don't.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Hey. Hey, friends. I'm lucky to have so many amazing women in my life who are experts in their field. Michelle Pettingill is a wonderful friend of mine who is doing amazing work providing therapeutic resources to her clients through telehealth, something I consider the new norm in the mental health industry. Her thoughtfulness and insight is filled with calming energy that I always feel so relaxed after chatting with her. I hope it does the same for you. Enjoy.
Michelle, I'm so excited to sit down and chat with you today.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Yes, thank you for having me.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: So I was really interested in sitting down and talking to you because I think you take a very unique approach to self care and wellness, and you serve such a wide range of clients that I think it impacts so many different types of relationships that we have in our lives. Not just marriage, divorce, spouse, but it's siblings, it's friendships, it's employment, relationships. And so I'm very excited to kind of get your insight on how people are managing these types of relationships in their lives.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: So why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit about your background, your educational background, and how you kind of evolved into the business that you're running now.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Great. Yes. So I grew up in San Jose, California, and I volunteered a lot as a child.
I always asked my mom to take me to volunteer places because I knew there was more than private education and I wanted to see more of what San Jose had to offer. And so when she took me to these volunteer agencies, I loved serving and I loved putting a smile on people's faces. And so I kind of volunteered most of my childhood, including high school.
And then I went off to Regis University in Denver, and I volunteered at the Goodwill there and learned a ton about how to really put a program together for people that felt underserved, and it just kept my motivation to help others go.
So from there, I realized I wanted an array of services. And I can say I actually enjoyed each and every one of them because I was always learning and seeing the students or clients benefit.
So I guess you could say, yeah, I have a passion in helping others, and I noticed it from a young age. And then about seven years ago, I moved here to Folsom, California, and worked at a nonprofit and then moved into my own practice, actually two weeks before COVID started. Obviously had no idea COVID was about to happen, but I found it really helpful because here I am providing telehealth to people where we were just told we need to stay in our homes. So either they found me and we would call each other up on the phone, put on the video, and here I am in my own private practice, and it's now, what, three years later.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: And so you were already transitioning into this new kind of industry, I want to say industry standard, at least from my experience with my clients, of offering telehealth and alternative options for people who are busy or maybe just aren't quite as comfortable going into somebody's office. You were kind of already getting to that point when the shutdown happened.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Yeah, and I had a few clients that actually would say, you know what, when I was in the office, they were running late and they were like, hey, can we just talk on the phone? And they enjoyed it and they said, okay, I got the benefit out of it as if I was in person. And I have a lot of clients that live up the hill, shingle Springs, Diamond Springs, and it's a lot, gas prices are a lot just finding a babysitter. And so they've really enjoyed the video or the phone session.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that just seems like such a way to provide people therapy, counseling, companionship, an outlet in general to express themselves. Communicating with others for your benefit and talking to people and getting the resources can seem like an inconvenience simply because you have to go out and get it. And what I'm seeing, at least with my clients or even friends and family, is that the accessibility of it all this change in the industry of therapeutic resources has really opened the door to people reaching out for help that maybe wouldn't have. Are you experiencing that with your clients? Are you noticing that maybe some clients that you are bringing on because you offer telehealth might not have done it in a more traditional setting?
[00:05:32] Speaker A: Oh, yes, I think because everything is so busy, busy, busy lately. And so it's okay. Now I have to went from what, maybe 2 hours, maybe two and a half from where you're coming from your home to the office and then sit for your hour session, then go back home. And so now you only have your 50 minutes session on the phone or video. So I have some people that will have session at 05:00 P.m. Because that's their drive home from work.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Or sometimes it's 08:00 A.m. On the way to after drop off. The kids at school, they're driving, running around, errands. So as long as they're comfortable and in a confidential space, it works really well.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I can imagine. What type of trends are you seeing in these last three years when it comes to the reasons people are seeking your services?
[00:06:26] Speaker A: Well, definitely from the pandemic, a lot more people that experience anxiety. So a lot of worry, a lot of overthinking, a lot of worst case scenario, some people have trouble leaving the house. So a lot of agoraphobic type of clients, some clients do leave the house, but then they're stunned with social anxiety where they want to go out and meet people, want new friendships, and they just are paralyzed with their anxiety.
Marriages have seen their own conflicts because especially during the pandemic people both had to work from home or be home together and didn't realize what challenges that would become of that which is communication seeing each other. 24/7 parenting skills in conflict. So I think between anxiety, social anxiety and our friendships, marriages, those are the trends that I've been seeing in my clientele.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Is there anything that you think is specifically related that you found to be unique or interesting through the different types of conversations you're having with your clients?
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Yes, a lot more people are open to services. So I guess you could say that the stigma of mental health has gone down just a little bit. We need it to go down more. But yes, a lot more people want services.
On social media you're finding a lot more people joining groups that say hey, I need help with A, B and C, which is a lot of parenting support, friendship support, anxiety support and not to mention marriage. So in that people are saying this is what's going on, I don't know how to handle it. So yes, in that regard, I do feel like lots more people are open to that outside feedback. Whereas before it was like, no, I've tried that, maybe I'll try it, but this is a lot more open. And so I see that as a huge strength. A lot of people say that's vulnerability, but vulnerability means huge strength. Anytime anybody says I need help, yes, I want to give them a big hug because we all need help. It takes a huge village. We cannot do life alone. So having new friendships and overcoming that social anxiety, I really enjoy helping people do that. And when you see them empowered that they can go and say hello to somebody, meet up for coffee and work through that anxious feeling during meeting a new person, huge success. And we definitely celebrate those successes.
So there is a lot more people asking for help through any type of social forum to finding a therapist.
And in my world it's really cool to see because I want to help every single one of them and it's so hard. But there's so many therapists out there and more and more getting educated and becoming licensed. So we have a good amount of people to refer to, which is also very helpful.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Yeah, and what I find interesting about what you just said is you're kind of saying you see vulnerability as a strength. And I think that that's kind of a trend in all sorts of types of relationships that a lot of people, I think, hold back, at least in my personal experience. I think being vulnerable in your relationships with your friends, in your marriage, in whatever type of relationship that is important and how you choose to be vulnerable doesn't mean you need to be an open book to every single person in your life. But choosing to let people in and saying, these are my needs. These are the things that I want and I think can be a very powerful tool that a lot of people take for granted. At least I think that way personally, regardless of the situation, is letting people in a little bit can usually be a good thing, not necessarily find a weakness.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: I think a step to that being vulnerable is being self aware, knowing that I can't keep doing this because this is no purpose. I go to bed and I think, okay, those thoughts of, I didn't do enough, I'm not enough. Oh, gosh, I didn't get this checked off of my list. Oh, dear, I'm a horrible mom or I'm a horrible wife friend. Name the role. Right? And that judgment comes in at the end of the day because you just didn't do something. And that's awful. That's an awful feeling. So how long can you live with that before you say, something has to change? Okay, well, let me open myself up, say, Hi, I need some help, and that's okay that I'm asking for help.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: When I started brainstorming what I wanted for forever, but not always because of the industry I'm in. I'm a divorce attorney. I am a mediator, and mostly I'm working with couples, either getting married or getting divorced. And at the same time, what it allowed me to do is kind of pick apart all the different relationships in my life, not just my own spouse, but my parenting relationship with my parents, how I'm choosing to parent, my daughter, my friendships, my business partner. So when it comes to relationships, we make all these different commitments, we make all these different promises, and all of those relationships are going to have conflict from time to time. What are some of your favorite conflict resolution tools that you use or you suggest for your clients?
[00:12:24] Speaker A: I love this question.
Conflict can be defined in so many different ways to anybody that you ask, from working with couples as a professional and then in my own relationship and then working with relationships professionally as well as my own.
There's been a few trends that I've noticed have really worked, which is people just want to be listened to. So the best thing is attunement, just like we said, you're asking for help. You got there because you attuned to yourself.
You're asking, is this going to make me feel better?
And so you're opening yourself up to that. So I feel like attunement to yourself, which helps you be better to others.
So my greatest tool is luv, listen, understand, validate.
And it sounds so simple, but, oh, my gosh, is it so challenging because you're asking me to stop and really listen to you and not be in my head of, oh, I got to defend. Oh, I have an answer for that. And we're so quick to answer, but really, people just want to be like, you know what this sucks and I just want you to hear me and give me a hug and maybe a gallon of ice cream.
But it really is, it's sitting down and listening to one another. And I think when we get into conflict, that's what happens is we're so quick to defend and have that answer. So the other piece I really encourage others to do and have learned myself is the power of pause. So we're always quick to answer, why not take that pause, digest the information and respond versus that reaction? Because reaction also more than likely leads to conflict.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: I really love that listen, understand and validate. I think I'm probably going to start using that, to be honest, in my mediation practice, I mean, even with my clients. But in mediation we focus a lot on asking questions, right? So when somebody makes a proposal or a statement or a suggestion on how to resolve something and the other person internally doesn't believe it makes sense or doesn't benefit them at all, a lot of my clients will just be so quick to be like, that doesn't make any sense. How does that help me, all of these things. Instead, I try to encourage them to take a second and ask a question so that you can understand where the person's proposal is coming from, where that statement is coming from. Because if you can ask a question instead of making a statement in return, you're going to at least get some more information from that person as to why they think that that would be a helpful resolution. Even if the question is as simple as can you tell me how you think that resolution benefits me? You can ask the other person that question too. Especially. I mean, obviously I'm talking a very limited category of relationships, which is marriages that we're working to untangle, right? But it's a similar concept is if you can just get that person to answer another question or two, you can find out where their motivation is, where they're coming from, and use that to craft maybe an alternative proposal that might better benefit you, but still addresses the concern that they're having. So many people are quick to do exactly what you just said, which is react, make a statement, make them feel stupid. Silly or careless with whatever they're putting out, when really the important part of it is that at least they said something. And we can use that as information to learn a little bit more about what each other needs in the moment. And I think that can be applied to so much more. I mean, you're telling me it can be applied to so much more when it comes to different types of relationships, but from my perspective, I'm going instantly. This is what clients have such a hard time doing when they're trying to negotiate or talk through issues with somebody that they're essentially breaking up with, right? Whether that's a spouse, friendship, whatever, but I really like that. Listen, understand and validate. I seriously think I'm going to steal that.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Well, I have to give credit to the Strengthening Families program I learned with them many years ago, and awesome program. We offer it here in Folsom and at many school districts.
And that was the one piece that stood out because I feel like that's the foundation. If you can listen, understand, and validate, can you imagine the connection that you have with your friend or with your partner or your child? So yes, in every aspect, you can do that. And we forget to do that, actually, as a mother or thinking back about our childhoods.
Most of the time if you fall and hurt yourself, your parent usually says, oh, come here, are you okay? Maybe not our generation, actually, because our parents were like, come on, you're fine. Get up.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: You're fine.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: Yeah, you're fine. But when you actually attune to your child and actually stop and listen, they're okay within a few minutes. So why aren't we doing that with our friends and our partners? Give them the same attention and then let alone give ourselves the same attention?
So it's pretty cool.
I've really put this into play last few years, and it's really awesome to watch it unfold and the simplicity of it. People are like, really? You just want me to listen, understand, and validate? That's all my homework is to go home with my partner and just listen to one another. Okay. But after a few tries, they come back and say, wow, that has really changed my marriage, where I want to stay in this marriage or I want to stay in this friendship. The other piece, I think asking what you kind of hit on was what would be the most beneficial thing you could do for yourself right now? And then, what is the most beneficial thing you could do in this friendship?
[00:18:52] Speaker B: And I don't think we ask those questions of ourselves or the people in our lives enough because it feels like it sparks almost conflict or negative reaction unless you're really going to sit with it and say, what can I do? I want this to be better. What can I do? Or what can I bring to the table? Or what can I ask for?
Those are really empowering questions. I think they're not meant to cause problems or cause more conflict. They're meant to improve in my mind. But sometimes it's hard to sit down and reassess if things are just going okay, right? Like, things are going fine or we're not arguing, so things must be going fine, but that's not right.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: Right now. You also have to look at your audience. I mean, if you keep hitting your head against the wall and you keep using the luv, but you're not getting anywhere, then, okay, that is time to let go and do some self work and realize, okay, what could you have done better in that friendship? Or maybe nothing. And it wasn't the right person for you so to listen to those as well.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think that's kind of a good shift is talking about friendships. I'm realizing that as I get older, my friendships are very much kind of this. I have a core group of friends, close family, and I still have energy and bandwidth to make new friends and bring new people into my life. But obviously I have more limited time. I'm a little bit more selective about people I'm bringing into my life that are going to kind of bring me joy. I feel like I want to invest in bringing their life joy. So what kind of issues are you seeing when it comes to working out? Conflict between friends, what's getting in the way? What are people struggling with?
[00:20:48] Speaker A: Great question. Yes. And I love that because when we do get older, we become choosier. But I think rightfully so, because we've learned so much up to this point and your time is limited, so you want to make sure that they're filling up your cup, not that it's their responsibility, but that it's a good interaction, a reciprocal interaction.
So I think the conflict, what I see is, again, not to blame the pandemic, but I think we're making up time from the pandemic. Well, we are signing up for everything, and we are busy, busy, busy, busy. And I'm one to blame.
But I also have learned which my husband is very proud of me for, is to make time in our schedules for just to be and I didn't grow up that way, but I also tell my clients to do it. So I thought, well, shoot, I need to learn how to do it. It's take time. Right? And so do you want to fill that time with a friend sometimes? No. And sometimes that friend doesn't understand. And I'm surely guilty of it because, again, I'm still learning. But yes. So I think that's one of them is understanding each other's time and energy and where they want to spend it and not taking that personal.
I think when a working mom is friends with stay at home mom, it could be a really awesome relationship. But again, time. So that could be challenging to schedule a visit together.
Our energy is pretty low at the end of the day because the demands are high.
People are experiencing a ton of financial stress right now. So if you say even for a cup of coffee, that could be challenging for some friends.
So the social life, keeping up with that. People kind of retreat and they feel ghosted and they don't have, I guess, the voice to say, hey, I can't go out because I can't afford it. That's hard. And that's hard for your friends to feel that.
And then the friendship either fizzles or it's just more distant.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Yeah. I personally, in my life can look back and I have all these friendships that allow me to come in and out.
And I would say that I've allowed them to do the same. Meaning we've been friends for a long time, or a lot of my college friends, I would say that we're still very close because when we can get together and when we can make it happen, it's like no time has passed. But neither of us have unrealistic expectations of the other such that we're feeling let down.
And I think that that's something that's very important for friendships, especially as you get older, is to not project expectations on your friends that you yourself maybe cannot keep up with somebody else. Meaning if you can keep up the same amount of energy with every amount of friend, that's amazing. And I know some people that are really wonderful at that because they care about it's important to them. But I can't keep up a relationship at the same speed all the time. Some friendships are going to have a lot more going on for a period of time. Some are going to be a little bit slower at times because of our lives. We're not able to connect and some are going to be once a year we're going to have a phone call and it's going to be amazing and you'll be there for that person. And I just think that that's okay. And it's actually really great to have such a wide range of friendships that serve your life in different ways without comparing it to everybody else. And I do know there's been times I've done it with people, I've had unrealistic expectations on people or I felt let down by friends at times because of what I needed versus what they were going through in their life. And when you can let some of that go, you realize that you're able to have so many more friendships and interesting connections and they just serve you as they serve you. And that's okay. But I know it can be hard for people to balance that difference between the different relationships in their lives.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: Well, I think you and I are an example of that, where we can get together every once in a while and it's great.
Yeah, but you're right, it's the expectations. And kind of like I mentioned earlier, I was raised in a very social upbringing where every weekend my family loved to host.
And so growing up, you'd think I would have that expectation, and I do. But I also learned a lot about me. Like I said in the last five years or so of, okay, I don't need that. That's not me, that was my parents.
So that's probably coming into friendships as well is the way we were raised, right? Our inner child of what we think our adult social lives should be.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: And again, I think it comes down to that. Setting expectations at a place they don't need to be set, whether it's keeping up with how you were raised or keeping up with your parents did or I have some friends that are always the ones reaching out to me. They're always the one being proactively, planning and I always feel like a jerk, right? It's just like I need to be a little bit better or I need to put in a little bit of effort. And when I do put in the effort and we're able to get together, it's so much fun and so worth it. But it's hard. And I think you mentioned this before is what is serving me and also am I leaving my door open so that if this person needs me, I can be there? And at the end of the day, those two answers are yes. Even if it's a year between months, between whatever it is, then I still think that relationship is serving you or serving me personally.
But it can be very hard, especially when you have different work lives, different family dynamics or situations, different financial either goals or financial abilities. Whatever it is, it's hard. Friendships are hard. And figure it out and make it work and connect with people. It really is so valuable. I mean, I have such a great group of friends both wide and close, but it's always something that we have to work on, always something you have to make an effort for and it's not easy.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Well, I will say the other piece too is social media.
Social media makes life look glamorous, right? Everybody is posting where they've been, what they're doing, and so to that person that is feeling a little bit uneasy. And I get this a lot from my college clients where they see their friends going out to these parties or dating this person or doing this, it's like, wait a minute, what happened to me? So their self esteem plummets and so the only courage they have is to speak through their text.
And they can text. And we don't see affect, we don't hear the connotations, we don't hear the fluctuations of tone, we're not able to truly listen.
And so it becomes this conflict of text or texting conflict, right? And then all of a sudden, nothing.
And a lot of these friendships don't answer the phone, they just want to text. So I think a lot of friendships are lost in that as well through the social media of what they see.
And they think that's true reality, that's the full picture. So I've seen a lot of friendships end over that as well.
And so I do a lot of work on healthy management of social media and then building up their self esteem so where if they do see something, it's not hitting them so hard and they can actually have empathy or joy for that person experiencing their joy.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I could not agree more with the social media aspect. And I feel like I'm somebody that's on social media a lot. I feel like I post a lot.
Some of that is for family and friends that don't live close to me now because they can see photos of my daughter and what we're doing, and I text it to them, but I'd have to text it to like, ten people. So social media is a great outlet for that, great way to just post, and then your friends and family can see it, but I'm still on it way more than I would prefer. And it's this habit forming, this way of feeling connected. And there's even been those moments where I'm like, oh, if I don't check today, I feel like I'm out of the loop, when really that's not the truth, right? Like, you can easily just check in with people who you want to check in with and not feel that way. But I can imagine that some people are much more engulfed in what's going on, social media wise, and thinking their friends are fine because their social media seems to be fine, or projecting of themselves that everything's great and it's not. But for me, just being on it, whether I'm posting or really reading too much into my friends posts or not, that alone, I feel it could be a whole episode worth of conversation.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: It for sure can.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. And now raising kids, I'm like, if I can convince my daughter to stay off social media until she's like, 18, what can I do to convince them? That how we grew up, because I didn't get social media. I mean, it was like Facebook once you got a college email address. That was my generation. We couldn't even be on Facebook until we had a college email address. So what can I do to convince my daughter to not be on social media until she's 18? Because I feel like kids these days are getting so caught up in oh, so and so posted this photo, and they were with all these people, and I wasn't invited. And that happens for us as adults. So I can't imagine how it can feel for young kids looking at that and then having to see their friends at school. It's this whole kind of domino effect that social media can have on intensifying Insecurities, in, right?
[00:31:38] Speaker A: Oh, well, it's a loaded question. It's very mean. Facebook is great for a few things. They've created a lot of different groups, and there is one group called Screen Strong that is amazing. A ton of people all over the world talking about how to get their young children from not feeling left out, just like you asked, and not getting that social media. So there are very supportive groups out there and parents that are like minded. So I think finding those people are really helpful. I will have to say it's a lot of energy coming from the parent with scheduling activities and again, not overloading. But enough activities to where the child is stimulated, building up their self esteem and having the courage to be who they are and saying, I don't want to be on social media, that's cool, but I'm going to go do this over here. Takes a ton of guts and people don't want to hear that anymore because of, again, this generation, I will say when we sit on our phones on the couch and zone out, our children pick up on that and they think that's what we do. But then again, when we look back at our childhoods, our parents were sitting there watching the news, watching HGTV or whatever show that they liked and they were zoning out. So not too much different. But you didn't have your friendships on TV, right?
So I think it's communication. I think it can go back to listening to your kid, understanding what they need, validating that it's tough.
And I think a little bit here and there, I mean, you can text those ten friendships and say, here's what I did today. It just takes an extra minute to do that.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: And the mindset shift of do I need to put this out to everyone or can I keep it a little bit more close to home by texting people or calling people? And it's a weird kind of social time that we're in that it's going to be interesting to see how that progresses, especially with the generation coming up and how that impacts their mental health, how that impacts their relationships. Because I definitely think it does impact all of that. But yeah, like I said, we'll probably talk about social media for a whole hour alone, if not more about how that impacts us.
[00:34:16] Speaker A: Well, I'll end it with this maybe is I feel like social media is an addiction. I'm addicted to my phone, right? And so a lot of people, like in January, start working out, take that time to take a break from your phone because the holidays, people love to post, why not, right? Share everything that you've done, ate, wore, what have you, and share that maybe taking that January dry January where you get off of your phone and see what that does for you and take those little breaks. Because what's lost is the creativity. We can be so creative with making our videos, taking those photos, but use that strength outside of your phone.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great suggestion. I think my husband at time we both tried to do get off our phones on Sunday, like early. And it's like you try it and then all of a sudden it's like we forgot totally. We were going to do this thing where we weren't on our phones on Sundays. We were going to be a family and do things together. And we definitely do. We make it a family day, but the phone is still there. And then weeks go by and we've kind of forgot that that was our commitment. But I like that mindset of just saying, like, can I challenge myself? Can I step back? Can I do a little bit less? And see how that changes me? And I think sometimes are just uncomfortable being uncomfortable doing something different.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: I have one more thought, though, actually, which is when you do take a break, you notice that when you meet up with a friend, you have actually more conversation, because it was, how was your weekend? What did you do? Oh, I went here, here, and here. Oh, wow. What was that like? Instead of, hey, I saw pictures on the Internet about you and, wow, that looks so much fun, and the conversation goes silent. Yes, and I'm so guilty of it, too. I mean, gosh, yeah.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: So that kind of takes me to another topic of self care. And what people define as self care can range really widely depending on the types of interests you have. I think of self care for me as prioritizing my workouts, and then it's sometimes the fun stuff, the pampering, the spa days, the shopping. What do you think self care really means as a general term?
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Well, yes, the spa days and yes, to shopping.
But you're right, there are so many different forms of self care. I think when it really comes down to it, again, I can't say enough about that word attunement it's, really listening to what your body needs. So a lot of times we say, oh, we just need to go on vacation. If I could just make it a vacation, I'll be all right, and then I'll do all the self care in the world. I'll read that book that I've always wanted to read, and I'll get that petty and Manny and sit on the beach, and that's awesome. Yes, go on vacation.
But what you don't realize is you can take many vacations throughout your day, and you can incorporate them from the second you wake up to the second you go to sleep. And that looks like stopping. Pausing from the computer, pausing from all the to do lists you have to do, stopping from your children that are screaming at you to your husband doing whatever he's doing, whatever it is. Stop and pause, walk away, whether it's getting that fresh air, taking a few deep breaths, actually do reading a book, maybe it's a self help book, an affirmation book.
Another piece of self care is what's going up in your head, all those thoughts. And if it's pretty nasty in there, you can imagine your self care is very challenging.
So imagine if you were to change around those thoughts to, hey, you really did an awesome job this morning. Wow, you've got three tasks off of your list. Or as simple as, wow, I actually took a shower today, and that really felt great. Yeah, it's the simplest thing, but to acknowledge that is a form of self care and so I'm all about simplicity, because, again, we're all so busy, we don't have time for more. So I never tell a client or a friend or anybody that I'm talking to that self care should be more it's another thing or it's another task. You can incorporate it into your day as easy as eating a meal.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: It's funny because I just had a conversation with another mom and she said the same thing.
We tend to make excuses for things that we don't do, whether that's taking time for self care, making time for exercise, or making time for things for friends, for family, whatever it is. But we make time to eat, right? We make time to do these certain things throughout the day because it's become routine. And I'm a huge fan of scheduling my day, whether it's a weekend or a workday, I try to schedule almost every minute, but within there, there's time for flexibility and downtime. And that works for me. It doesn't work for everybody, but it's this mindset of, I'm so busy, I can't get this done. And it's like, well, look at your schedule. Where are all the blocks of time? How do you spend it? And then I bet you can find the time. But it's easier said than done. Of course, it's taken me a while personally, but I realized that once I started doing that, once I started scheduling my days more, meaning adding more to my calendar, I was actually able to accomplish much more, including downtime self care, the things that are important to me and my health and my family.
[00:40:24] Speaker A: Yeah, well, just listening to you, both of my feet are placed on the ground, my fingertips are touching one another, and I just took a big belly breath.
And so right then and there, that's a form of self care, and it made me listen to you more. So it's a conscious effort, that awareness to know, instead know. Michelle's been telling me to implement self care. How do I do that? What do I do? It's like, oh, wait, I could do that right now by just taking a deep breath.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So simple.
[00:40:53] Speaker A: It's so simple. And so by doing so, by taking those mini vacations throughout your day, what you're doing is you're sustaining your energy. You won't get that slump at your 05:00 drive home or for stay at home parents or single. You don't get that slump at the end of the day because you've taken care of yourself throughout the day. So it's a conscious awareness. Yeah.
[00:41:18] Speaker B: And I'm trying to think of myself, like, when do I do those little things throughout the day to kind of reset myself? And I don't know that I do. So it'll be interesting to kind of take that back and put that on myself and see little ways on top of the scheduling and the things that I do to prioritize, but the little moments and what that could impact. So I'll have to see if I can remember to do those types of things.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: Well, it's also too when you can, I mean, a good stretch, bringing back your arms behind your shoulders and just opening up your chest and taking that breath that takes 1 second. So we don't realize that all these little things are very quick.
When I learned about self care, I'm like, oh yeah, I went and got a massage today. Oh, great. But during my massage, I was thinking about everything that I had to do and the dishes that were still sitting in the sink. And so was it really a relaxing self care hour? No. Right.
And you just spent 100 plus dollars doing it.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: It's a very expensive stressful hour.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: So next time you get that massage, or petty or your workout, see what your brain is doing. And not that you have to meditate, but just that you're aware what's going on in there. Is it nice in there? Is it compassionate? Is it nurturing? Is it judgy?
Really kind of become aware of that and see if you can just shift. Like, wow, you're working out right now. Awesome job. Wow, you took the time to get a massage. Okay, well, let's marry here.
Really? Take all my toxins and let's visualize that everything's going to Mary today. Right. All my toxins are going to her. And you'll notice that you'll feel more relaxed.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. So one thing that I really wanted to talk to you about is you place a huge focus on nutrition and how that impacts mental health and self care. So talk to me a little bit about where this passion came from and how you implement it into the services you provide.
[00:43:30] Speaker A: Yes, just recently, actually, I feel like I've always been one to eat healthy. Granted, my parents ate bologna sandwiches, but I guess throughout college and beyond, I noticed that my stomach always was hurting me. I was always bloated. I couldn't wear the cute pants or shorts I wanted or the dress. And so I just felt uncomfortable. But for me, I was like, okay, I'm a college student. Maybe how I'm supposed to feel because I'm studying, less sleep, not eating right, drinking, and I was just a big puffy mess. So I think it was about the last four years I really concentrated on my health and to where this was not okay. Again, asking myself, is this really benefiting me? No, I can't keep living like this. Plus, now I'm a parent, I want to live long. Right. I want to be there for all those moments. So what can I do?
Tracking what I ate and how I felt and what my mood was. And a book that I will put in my resources is maybe I didn't, but I will. It's called cooking for hormone balance. And it's by Magdalena. And I'm just going to say a w because her last name is hard to say. Magdalena W. And she I discovered this book by just looking up, or maybe my phone heard me. You know how your phone hears what you need and they give you ads for things? So I saw her book, and she shared her journey very similar to mine. And it really resonated to me where I started noticing a lot more and trying the recipes she suggested. And I started feeling better, but not enough. So I took it even further and saw a functional medicine doctor where they told me that they've noticed that when I eat night shade vegetables that can cause migraines, and I have a history of migraines since five years old. And so your night shade vegetables are eggplant, even though I didn't like eggplant, but more so bell peppers and tomatoes, which I'm Italian and love those two foods, and I thought they were healthy, but what they were doing was causing my migraines and then learned that I had a hormone imbalance with high cortisol and high estrogen. So I started eating foods that helped those levels come down, and I felt amazing. So in the last few years, I felt really great. I'm not bloated. My migraines have decreased and my cortisol levels have come down, which, as you know, cortisol is stress. So that also incorporates a lot more of my self care, of what thoughts are happening in my brain to what exercises I was doing, and then again, my nutrition.
I then became certified for nutrition and mental health, and now I'm working with clients in their own journeys of health. And yes, the added benefit is losing weight. But it's also about really educating ourselves of how interrelated is, from our stress to what we eat, to our moods, to our stools to I mean, we get really personal because I don't think you can do one without the other.
[00:47:05] Speaker B: For me, personally, I'm not sure of all the different ways in which my food impacts me. But I know a couple of things that are huge, right? Alcohol. When I drink alcohol, I don't sleep as well. I thought I was sleeping fine, but then when I go long periods of time, like right now, I'm kind of doing an extended period of time without alcohol, and I'm feeling better. My body is recovering from workouts faster. And these are just little things from one obviously more toxic thing that we can put into our body.
So people notice this stuff on a regular basis. I think they either choose to ignore it because they want the thing that's making them feel terrible, which I can understand, or they chalk it up to other things. And so even for me, when I just eat a little bit better, meaning I'm avoiding processed foods and things that don't really serve my body. But I'm not focused on calories or losing weight. I'm feeling better. And naturally, sometimes I'm losing weight, right, because I'm just focusing on what my body's telling me I need. I can see the benefit just by knowing the handful of things that make me feel shitty on a day to day basis.
[00:48:20] Speaker A: Yes. Well, good for you. Yeah. Well, also for our mood, that could include that depressed feeling, the lethargy anxiety. So let's take coffee, for example. If you are somebody that's prone to worry or overthinking and you take that cup of coffee, most experience, what, an increase in those symptoms? And then they're jittery and they're shaken. Right. And so then they cannot come to a meeting and present what they needed because they're shaky and they're jittery and they're overthinking. But what do they do? They have that other cup of coffee because they think they need one more to stabilize. So I encourage, if anybody does have symptoms of anxiety, if they're drinking coffee, to try and stop or just have that one cup.
And so it's quite fascinating eating fast food on the regular. Talk about lethargy. They don't put those two and two together. So yeah. At the end of the day or at the after the meal, really noticing what's going into our bodies and how it's making us feel is so important. I didn't realize how interconnected it was because even though I was eating healthy, it was actually a detriment to me. So it just goes to show that the foods that you're eating, Chelsea, is not good for me and vice versa. Right. You have your own unique meals that work for you and same for me. And so when they not I think keto works for some I think the Adkins work for some Weight Watchers. All these programs are set up to work to some extent. But I thought keto was great and it tore me up. Right. So it's really listening to your body and tracking how you feel, what's happening and then making these little shifts. And do I never have I'm also allergic to gluten.
Do I not have gluten? No. Sometimes I indulge, but I know I'm going to hurt. Like last night, I had apple pie. It was amazing. But I hurt, so you got to be prepared for that. But now I'm aware, so I know what I'm getting into.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And that knowledge alone is powerful in the way you operate your life, I would imagine. Just like, okay, sure decision. I know it's going to be terrible, but it's worth it and I'm going to deal with it. What are some books resources that you feel like pretty much anybody could benefit from reading or checking out?
[00:50:53] Speaker A: So the one that I recommended before the cooking for Hormone Balance by Magdalena. Excellent book. She has a hormone test in there that is very interesting, very insightful. So you could take that to a functional medicine doctor, know, talk about that for anxiety. My number one book is Rewiring the Anxious Brain by Pittman and Carl. And again, if you haven't noticed, I'm very simple, and that is a simple read. So anyone can read that book and really learn more about their symptoms of anxiety and how to rewire for self care love. Megan Logan's. Book called Self Love Workbook for Women.
It is just kind of like a journaling book. It gives a lot of empowerment and a lot of journal questions. And I would say if you're going to use this one, maybe first thing in the morning, take 510 minutes, just have that self care moment. Awesome book. And then for marriage, I like to recommend Hold Me Tight by Dr. Sue Johnson. She talks about how marriages are like a dance and sometimes dances flow and are amazing and sometimes they have a lot of kinks in there that you need to work out. And so she has a lot of great examples and tools galore about how to save your marriage.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: Awesome. And I will make sure these are all tagged in our episode notes for any listeners that are interested.
Well, Michelle, thank you so much for spending time with me today and sharing all your insight.
And, yeah, I think it's going to be really beneficial to a wide range of listeners when it comes to different types of relationship. And I really just enjoyed everything you had to share today.
[00:52:50] Speaker A: You too. Thank you. This was a pleasure.
[00:52:52] Speaker B: All right.
[00:52:53] Speaker A: Thank you.
